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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:54 am
 


hey be nice or he`ll have a tantrum and threaten to run away again.......... and then who`ll spam the site with pot topics?



Last edited by ShepherdsDog on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:58 am
 


PluggyRug PluggyRug:
There has always been organised crime. There will always be organised crime.

Banning or legalising stuff just changes the methodology of the criminal collective mind.


As Curt said, do you think organized crime would be bigger or smaller or no diff if we still had prohibition on booze?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:58 am
 


andyt andyt:
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
There has always been organised crime. There will always be organised crime.

Banning or legalising stuff just changes the methodology of the criminal collective mind.


As Curt said, do you think organized crime would be bigger or smaller or no diff if we still had prohibition on booze?



Prohibition just provided an easy outlet for criminal activity. Larger or smaller, who really knows. Crystal balls never work in those situations.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:51 pm
 


The evidence from prohibition showed that organized cimre and crime in general rose during prohibition and dropped afterwards. Indeed, one of the primary reasons prohibition was passed was to reduce crime, but it didn't work. The gang activity arose because prohibition was not well accepted in the US. Which meant there were a lot of potential customers and almost an illicit social licence for the mobs to operate.

Pot isn't correlated wiht the level of crime alcohol is. I'd argue the "illicit social licence" exists for marijuana as well. I'd argue that legalization (for the age of majority) makes sense.

I don't agree with Curt's chart. Too much involvment by public health agencies will create a Byzantine bureaucracy which will be ineffective. A few clear regulations and enforcement would be the way I'd go. The mianissues would be keeping it out of the hands of kids and ensuring that people are driving under its influence.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:11 pm
 


Alcohol was used for dozens of centuries by the vast majority of society as a daily beverage and in religious ceremonies, so it really isn`t comparable to pot use.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:18 pm
 


ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Alcohol was used for dozens of centuries by the vast majority of society as a daily beverage and in religious ceremonies, so it really isn`t comparable to pot use.


from the point of view of historical and cultural significance, I'd agree with you.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:29 pm
 


It was one of the major failings of the Volstead Act, that it didn`t take this into consideration....that and the fact that alcohol consumption and possession weren`t illegal during the height of prohibition, production was, as was the purchase of alcohol unless you had a `medical prescription` from a doctor who obtained his alcohol from a government owned and operated distillery. This was all made even more problematic by the fact that almost everyone else in the Western world continued to produce and consume booze without government interference. Comparing Prohibition to current narcotic laws is almost like comparing apples and oranges





PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:09 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
I don't agree with Curt's chart. Too much involvment by public health agencies will create a Byzantine bureaucracy which will be ineffective. A few clear regulations and enforcement would be the way I'd go. The mianissues would be keeping it out of the hands of kids and ensuring that people are driving under its influence.


It's not my chart. It's from The Health Officers' Council of B.C.

$1:
B.C.'s medical health officers are joining a powerful coalition of health, academic and justice experts calling for an overhaul of Canada's anti-drug policies.

In a written statement, the Health Officers' Council of B.C. says it has unanimously passed a resolution to support Stop the Violence BC. The council includes all medical health officers throughout the province as well as physicians, researchers and consultants.

Dr. Paul Hasselback, who chairs the council, said medical experts are not asserting the drug is safe, but that policy as it stands puts the public at even greater risk.

"We need to acknowledge that our current approach to some of our substance-use policies is perhaps not as evidence-based as it should be," he said.

"We need to be proceeding to a dialogue that keeps the public's health as one of the prime drivers in the decision-making process."

Hasselback noted that unlike widely-used substances like alcohol and tobacco, officials can't proscribe measures for safe use of cannabis — simply because it's illegal.

The public is wary of the dangers of drinking and driving, he added, but there's very little knowledge or research around using pot and driving for the same reason.

Pot cheaper, more potent than ever

Dr. Evan Wood, a founder of Stop the Violence BC, says it's clear prohibition isn't working.

"The more money that we pump into anti-cannabis law enforcement does not have any kind of effect on rates of use and price of cannabis has gone down quite dramatically," he said. "The government's own data show that Canada's prohibition has failed."

A new report from the Stop the Violence BC coalition says billions of dollars have been spent in the hopes of stemming the drug trade — but marijuana is cheaper, more potent and more available than ever.

The coalition says instead of criminalizing pot, Ottawa should regulate and tax it.

The call comes as the Tories' wide-ranging crime bill — which toughens drug penalties — is nearing passage into law, but the federal justice minister stands by the decision not to decriminalize or legalize marijuana.

Asked for reaction to the report, a spokeswoman for the federal justice minister was terse.

"Our government has no intention to decriminalize or legalize marijuana," said Julie Di Mambro in an email.

Arrests, seizures soar

Arrests and cannabis seizures soared when anti-drug funding jumped, according to available data presented in the report, but none of the other anticipated impacts materialized.

Since 2007, the majority of at least $260 million in funding against drugs from Ottawa has been allocated to policing. Between 1990 to 2009, arrests have increased by 70 per cent.

But at the same time, prevalence of cannabis use rose.

The Canadian Alcohol and Drug Use Monitoring Survey showed 27 per cent of B.C. youth between 15 and 24 smoked weed at least once in the previous year.

In Ontario, the number of high school students using pot doubled from fewer than 10 per cent in 1991 to more than 20 per cent in 2009.

"It's just so clear that organized crime has absolutely overwhelmed these law enforcement efforts with the price of marijuana going down dramatically ... [and] the potency has gone up astronomically," Wood said.

Stop the Violence BC launched its campaign in October with a report that showed criminal organizations are making huge profits and engaging in street-level warfare over the underground drug trade.


A group of former Vancouver mayors have voiced their support for the coalition, which includes former B.C. Supreme Court justice Ross Lander and B.C.'s former chief coroner Vince Cain.





PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:09 pm
 


$1:
The Mounties bust cannabis traffickers, producers north of Montreal

The RCMP says it has busted a major cannabis trafficking and production ring north of Montreal.

About 90 police officers made eight arrests and conducted 14 seizures Wednesday in nine different towns in the Laurentian region.

Police allege the group was able to produce dozens of kilograms of marijuana on a weekly basis. Officers seized 1,250 cannabis plants, 34 kilograms of buds, $43,000 in cash and seven vehicles.

An RCMP spokesman alleges the group likely has ties to organized crime.

"It is a network that is well structured and is probably linked to a criminal organization that we could qualify as professional," said Erique Gasse.

"To have found so much material and such a good organization, it suggests to us that they are not amateurs."

The police operation targeted six rented homes and one commercial property serving as indoor grow-ops. Police said one of the residences was used as a processing and packaging plant.

The suspects will face charges that include gangsterism as well as possession and production of marijuana with intent to traffic.

The RCMP, which initiated the investigation in May, worked with a number of local police forces during Wednesday's operation.


Hooray! Prohibition has scored one! There will be no marijuana available in Montreal for the foreseeable future!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:22 pm
 


I was in Winnipeg for two days in August, and overall had a wonderful visit. And I don't mean to knock the city at all . . . . . .

But the north side of the city was one of the few urban areas of Canada I've been in where my natural crime antennae (I'm originally from New Orleans) went on high alert--"uh oh, honey, I think we took a wrong turn there".


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