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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 10:34 am
 


Unsound Unsound:
I don't want to get involved in the larger debate because I honestly don't know enough to contribute, and you guys are doing a great job as it is.

But this argument...


FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
Given how Muslims treat minorities in their own nations, Israel is a saint in comparison. Considering how Muslims in Eygpt outright terrorize the Coptic Christian minority by arresting them on trumped charges, destroying their churches, and outright kidnapping their girls and women to forcibly convert them. The same thing happens in Pakistan with their Christian and Hindu minorities. Much of Iraq's Christian fled the country after the fall of the Hussein regime. A repeat of that will likely happen in Syria if and when the Assad regime falls, and do not get me started on Iran and Nigeria.

Bottom Line: I extend little sympathy to the Palestinians because on the whole their Arab/Muslim "brothers" do the exact same thing they accuse Israel of doing, but get a free pass from the BDS movement in the West because they are the Left's favorite "pet" minority.



Can we not all agree already that 2 wrongs don't make a right?

Conservative corruption is not ok just because the Liberals were corrupt first. It's not ok for Israel to treat minorities badly just because minorities get treated badly elsewhere. Particularly as Israels defenders generally try to place Israel on a moral high ground in the area.



Well said, not to mention the ignorance of grouping Palestinians and paintings them with the sins committed by 'Arab' states. FTR, I have no doubt that Christians in Egypt have distinct disadvantages both under the law and in everyday life but much of what FV indicates sounds fabricated or exaggerated. Ill play the "Ive been there" card and let you know that in the 2 trips Ive just so happened to make to Egypt, one post "revolution" and one about 10 yrs earlier, I noticed Christians and Muslims living and working side by side and many grandiose churches as well. Im not saying everything is rosy there but I doubt its anywhere near as bad as FV would make it seem.


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 2:02 pm
 


Fabrications, just like Hamas and the PA like to espouse on a daily basis? Furthermore, visiting a place for days or weeks and living there for years are two separate things. As the Muslim Brotherhood strengthens its hold on Egypt, I expect matters to get progressively worse for its Coptic population if the Salafists get their way, which is model the nation's laws on a strict interpretation of Sharia Law. Unfortunately for Christians and Jews, that means being forced to live as second-class citizens and pay the jizya (which essentially amounts to "pay us or else we will rape and/or murder you.") Mubarak, Gaddafi, Assad, and Hussein are all monsters in their own right but their own iron-fisted largely kept sectarian violence in check.

Oh ho, and this is interesting. Dr. Hawking certainly had no such moral compunctions when he visited Iran in 2007.

$1:
The incredibly well traveled Hawking also visited Iran in 2007 for the International Physics Olympiad. His conscience was apparently untroubled by the stoning of adulteresses, imprisonment without trail, torture and the persecution of religious and ethnic minorities -- to say nothing of arming terrorists and threatening to wipe countries off the map.

Heh, the cognitive dissonance of Hawking and his BDS cohorts is so delicious. :lol: However, the writer of the article forgot that Iran often hangs homosexuals from cranes.


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 2:19 pm
 


Hawking's an asshole.


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:41 pm
 


$1:
The fact that the Israeli government is actively trying to combat this mindset, rather than encouraging it and coddling it through policy and law basically defeats any purpose of second class citizenship.

My point is that 65 later, they are still only at this primitive stage. I submit that the efforts are half-assed and a token reaction to international pressure as well as criticism from their own internal left-wing, while hampered by a militant right-wing and general indifference.

$1:
Israel would not annex the whole West Bank, but rather where it's settlements already are. Israeli annexation of those settlements is a possibility, but the whole West Bank is highly unlikely, which was addressed in that same two articles.

Well annexation of the settlements should be a non-starter, since most of the settlements are on prime real estate and at any rate take up and break up much of the already scarce land that would be needed for a Palestinian state.

$1:
This assumes they're not served by another police station in the next town over
It's a town of 20,000 with no police and busted streets and per the article, overrun with street crime. Sorry, I don't buy the idea that the fact that it's an Israeli Arab town has nothing to do with that.

$1:
The ones IN Israel, as in, the ones who weren't displaced, since they're likely the descendants of the ones who stayed.
Well no, it's not true that Israeli Arabs weren't displaced. Many just settled elsewhere within what would become Israel. Besides, many have family and relatives who ended up outside Israel, in the OT or in Egypt, Jordan, etc.

$1:
but it might just be how Israel distributes it's government infrastructure.

Yeah, not to Arab communities, because Israel is a Jewish state. I was also going to post another Haaretz article about how welfare payments to Israeli Arabs are only 2/3rds as much as those to Jewish claimants, but felt I was beating a dead horse. Anyways, here it is: http://www.haaretz.com/news/study-arabs ... s-1.216881


$1:
Of course, but for the most part, the water stealing and house bulldozing is occurring in the Palestinian territories, and not Israel proper. Big distinction.

I don't know that that's true and I'm not so sure the locals see the distinction. I'm sure Israeli Arabs figure they're better off than their OT brethren, but beyond that I'm sure they see their respective misfortunes as 2 sides of the same coin.

$1:
Which, again, you can argue that the Israeli government didn't do enough in the past to cope with rising tensions between Israeli, non-Jewish Arabs and Israeli Jews. But this is also looking at it through hindsight, and through the relative stability that Israel is now facing, compared to the much more turbulent times it has faced a little over a decade ago.

But I question why Arab voter participation - including Arabs voting for Jewish parties - has declined so much? Sounds like there was a period of progress, probably started during the hippie days, then massive backslide.

$1:
and the fortifications it built along the border

Just a clarification: They didn't build them along the border, the built the wall OVER the border, seizing the opportunity for another land-grab.

$1:
Israeli government a decade ago would have changed the mindset of the Israeli people towards the Arab minority?

I think politicians like Netanyahu certainly played to prejudices and dialed up the rhetoric.

$1:
many that have existed long before Israel's founding, are commonly homogenous.

It's not the fact that they are homogeneous, it's the fact that the racial/religous makeup is relevant to government decision makers that's odd.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:50 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
Hawking's an asshole.


but he has 12 inch rims on his chair, that's just how her rolls....


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:55 pm
 


He should return that Jew-built wheelchair those no-good Jews made for him and switch over to one built by Palestinians. It'll have wheels carved out of stone like something from The Flintstones and the Palestinians will have used all the electronics that were supposed to be in it to make rockets and IED's, but that's just the price Hawking will have to pay for his moral superiority.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:58 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
He should return that Jew-built wheelchair those no-good Jews made for him and switch over to one built by Palestinians. It'll have wheels carved out of stone like something from The Flintstones and the Palestinians will have used all the electronics that were supposed to be in it to make rockets and IED's, but that's just the price Hawking will have to pay for his moral superiority.


PDT_Armataz_01_37


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:00 pm
 


Like I said before, brilliant scientist or not, Hawking's an asshole. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:05 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
Like I said before, brilliant scientist or not, Hawking's an asshole. :twisted:


Dude, I already gave you a +5 for that! :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:15 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
Hawking's an asshole.


I always thought he was Jewish. My own bigotry coming into play--I thought it was a prerequisite to being a world-renowned physicist.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:19 pm
 


Hopefully he's not Jewish because if he is it takes his elitist stunt from being merely shameful to outright disgraceful :evil:


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