[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Brenda Brenda:

19.9% interest and courtesy to the customer, huh

Yea, because all car loans are 19.9%.

Actually, the loan would be more like 6% and by getting the customer to agree to the proverbial 19.9% the dealer receives what's called a 'yield differential' from the lender on the difference between the 6% wholesale rate and the rate the dealer can talk the customer into accepting.

If we're talking 6% loans, we're talking used cars and if we're talking 19% interest, we're talking about someone with horrendous credit.

When the approval comes through, the rate is offered. It's not "what you can talk the customer into" it's , here's the terms, take it or leave it. There is no kick-back based on differential and no wiggle room when you're dealing with those with bad credit.

You're lucky to find a lender and when you do, it's take it or leave it terms.

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Sure. The dealers barely make any money on each deal and they just try to make it up in volume.

In today's market, not the 1980's, margins are very tight on new vehicles. Margin is being made on used inventory & service.

Take a stab at what the margin is like on a Chevy Cruze if it were sold for full MSRP.

Including the dealer holdback? Around 7%.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

So you know all of that stuff above, yet you don't know about manufacturer rebates? Oddly enough, it's October and the 2013 models are already on-ground. That's why they're pushing 2012's out with manufacturer rebates.

And how does that work, exactly, if the margin in these vehicles won't sustain the price? Hmmmm?

Brenda was spot on and your point about rebates only proves it. Now be nice to the lady and tell her that she was right.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

You've referred to the term "piss back" numerous times on this forum.

Yep, I have.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

We don't use that term here

Which you illustrate by attributing the term with a completely different meaning.

'Piss back' is when you roll a vehicle on Saturday and the financing fails on Monday and your new car ends up coming back to the lot as a used car and the salesman loses his commission and the dealership eats the loss with the manufacturer. Some dealers will place the resulting loss with a collection agency and try to collect it from the attempted buyer.

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Including the dealer holdback? Around 7%.

You mean, 2-3%. Holdbacks are nowhere close to 7%.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And how does that work, exactly, if the margin in these vehicles won't sustain the price? Hmmmm?

Manufacturer looks at overall inventory levels and if there are too many units of one vehicle, they offer incentives to get them over the curb. It's very common this time of year as the new model year vehicles are arriving.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

'Piss back' is when you roll a vehicle on Saturday and the financing fails on Monday and your new car ends up coming back to the lot as a used car and the salesman loses his commission and the dealership eats the loss with the manufacturer. Some dealers will place the resulting loss with a collection agency and try to collect it from the attempted buyer.

We don't "roll" vehicles until it's paid for or financing is secured. Period.

If a new vehicle is sold and the deal falls through, it's still classified as a new vehicle without any loss.

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Including the dealer holdback? Around 7%.

You mean, 2-3%. Holdbacks are nowhere close to 7%.

That's right. You're in Canada. By the way, I think the US car company you work with is screwing you out of your holdback money.

That or your Canadian dealership is screwing you. One of the two.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Manufacturer looks at overall inventory levels and if there are too many units of one vehicle, they offer incentives to get them over the curb. It's very common this time of year as the new model year vehicles are arriving.

Let me ask you this: With $13,000 in rebates on a Toyota truck are you proposing that Toyota is losing money on the deal?

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Manufacturer looks at overall inventory levels and if there are too many units of one vehicle, they offer incentives to get them over the curb. It's very common this time of year as the new model year vehicles are arriving.

Let me ask you this: With $13,000 in rebates on a Toyota truck are you proposing that Toyota is losing money on the deal?[/quote]

Hard to say, I don't have the manufacturer build prices to refer to.

Do I think they lose money? Hard to say...they may push themselves to a break-even point or swallow a 500-2G pill to get the units moving.

[Xort]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Car sales are final. There are terms made clear, in large font, on the contract stating FINAL SALE or SALE FINAL in some cases. "The contract is final and bonding once you sign it". You sign next to that clause. I have a bill of sale sitting on my desk.

So why does the dealership say the guy stole their car if the sale is final?

You wouldn't switch one vehicle for another that is a different colour without a new contract, so he has a new contact, shouldn't that be honoured even if they fucked up and didn't use the proper price? It's not like the price wasn't possible, IE a clear error in the terms. Like having a price of the square root of negitive 5. It was just lower than the dealer wanted, but not an unreasonable price for a vehicle.

Also wouldn't most of the sales be conditional if both parties wanted to change the deal? If I sold you an item, and then found out it wasn't the right thing and we both want to swap the wrong item for the right one, are you saying I can't because it says final sale?

[OnTheIce]

Xort Xort:

So why does the dealership say the guy stole their car if the sale is final?

Because they're idiots and wrote the bill of sale incorrectly and think they can go back. They can't.

Xort Xort:

You wouldn't switch one vehicle for another that is a different colour without a new contract, so he has a new contact, shouldn't that be honoured even if they fucked up and didn't use the proper price? It's not like the price wasn't possible, IE a clear error in the terms. Like having a price of the square root of negitive 5. It was just lower than the dealer wanted, but not an unreasonable price for a vehicle.

It wasn't the same vehicle. It was a different trim and colour.

Xort Xort:

Also wouldn't most of the sales be conditional if both parties wanted to change the deal? If I sold you an item, and then found out it wasn't the right thing and we both want to swap the wrong item for the right one, are you saying I can't because it says final sale?

Final sale means final sale. Be sure of the vehicle you want because once that deal is signed, it's yours.

[Brenda]

That's not what he is saying. Xort is saying, that if you want to trade it for something else, and the dealer has no problem, the dealer cannot do that BECAUSE it says it is final?
You didn't answer that. Why not? Because the only right answer is "that is up to the dealership". And you don't want to say that.

The DEALER had no problem giving this man another car. THEY failed to mention a raised price. Not only during the conversation about the exchange, but also in the new contract.

The dealer can obviously change the contract if they want to.

[OnTheIce]

Brenda Brenda:

That's not what he is saying. Xort is saying, that if you want to trade it for something else, and the dealer has no problem, the dealer cannot do that BECAUSE it says it is final?
You didn't answer that. Why not? Because the only right answer is "that is up to the dealership". And you don't want to say that.

The DEALER had no problem giving this man another car. THEY failed to mention a raised price. Not only during the conversation about the exchange, but also in the new contract.

The dealer can obviously change the contract if they want to.

LOL, gotta love ya Brenda....

I have no problem saying the deal can be changed if both parties agree. The dealer and buyer can only change or negate a contract if both parties are willing.

And to correct you, the dealer did mention the raised price but forgot to include it on the contract. Totally their fault. The buyer did know about the price difference, BTW.

http://hamptonroads.com.nyud.net/2012/0 ... r-arrest-0

Point being this entire thing started when the dealer decided to do something for the customer to make them happy when they could have told him to buzz off and likewise for the buyer (as he has done in this case).

It's funny to see the buyer quoted as saying "a deal's a deal" when in fact, the dealership could have told him to screw off and be stuck with the original vehicle.

It will be interesting to see how the court case plays out, if it does at all.

[Gunnair]

andyt andyt:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

andyt andyt:

He's a conservative car salesman. 'Nuff said right there.

Who's a car salesman?

Did you stash your white shoes and belt after Labor day, or do you just wear them all year? I'm sure they look real snazzy with your CPC blue polyester pants and plaid jacket.

Damn it I'm glad I'd just finished my glass of water...

[Brenda]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Brenda Brenda:

That's not what he is saying. Xort is saying, that if you want to trade it for something else, and the dealer has no problem, the dealer cannot do that BECAUSE it says it is final?
You didn't answer that. Why not? Because the only right answer is "that is up to the dealership". And you don't want to say that.

The DEALER had no problem giving this man another car. THEY failed to mention a raised price. Not only during the conversation about the exchange, but also in the new contract.

The dealer can obviously change the contract if they want to.

LOL, gotta love ya Brenda....

I have no problem saying the deal can be changed if both parties agree. The dealer and buyer can only change or negate a contract if both parties are willing.

Then why didn't you say that to Xort?

$1:

And to correct you, the dealer did mention the raised price but forgot to include it on the contract. Totally their fault. The buyer did know about the price difference, BTW.

http://hamptonroads.com.nyud.net/2012/0 ... r-arrest-0

You are assuming he know. The dealer says he does, the costumer says he does not. Customer is always right, remember?

$1:

Point being this entire thing started when the dealer decided to do something for the customer to make them happy when they could have told him to buzz off and likewise for the buyer (as he has done in this case).

If they are not competent enough to put the right price in the contract, then maybe they should have done that.

$1:

It's funny to see the buyer quoted as saying "a deal's a deal" when in fact, the dealership could have told him to screw off and be stuck with the original vehicle.

But they didn't. NOT the customers problem.

$1:

It will be interesting to see how the court case plays out, if it does at all.

Meh, doubt it will.
He got his apology, his revenge and his trash talk.

[OnTheIce]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Damn it I'm glad I'd just finished my glass of water...

Don't spill the Metamucil!

Brenda Brenda:

Then why didn't you say that to Xort?

Because I misread the comment and answered incorrectly.

Brenda Brenda:

You are assuming he know. The dealer says he does, the costumer says he does not. Customer is always right, remember?

Customer is always right? LMAO....you're so naive sometimes. Legal issues don't come down to an age-old and completely false statement.

Brenda Brenda:

But they didn't. NOT the customers problem.

Exactly. So next time Mr/Mrs. Random buy a car and hate the colour and come back to trade cars and get a big fuck-you....you'll understand why.

[Gunnair]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Damn it I'm glad I'd just finished my glass of water...

Don't spill the Metamucil!

No worries there. Besides, I doubt I'm as old as you think I am.

I must say that I have to ensure that I put the glass/mug down in this thread. The image of you being batted around like a shuttlecock here just gives me the giggle fits.

[Brenda]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Brenda Brenda:

Then why didn't you say that to Xort?

Because I misread the comment and answered incorrectly.

Fair enough

$1:

Brenda Brenda:

You are assuming he know. The dealer says he does, the costumer says he does not. Customer is always right, remember?

Customer is always right? LMAO....you're so naive sometimes. Legal issues don't come down to an age-old and completely false statement.

You also missed the sarcasm. Guess that comes with lacking a sense of humour.

$1:

Brenda Brenda:

But they didn't. NOT the customers problem.

Exactly. So next time Mr/Mrs. Random buy a car and hate the colour and come back to trade cars and get a big fuck-you....you'll understand why.

Which is what they should have done in the first place, OR of course, just check and double check before they signed. Read the big letters, or numbers, in this case.

[OnTheIce]

Gunnair Gunnair:

I must say that I have to ensure that I put the glass/mug down in this thread. The image of you being batted around like a shuttlecock here just gives me the giggle fits.

Yea, whatever floats your boat. I prefer entertainment outside of Internet forums....to each his own.

It's actually been a good conversation. It's nice to see a conversation with multiple people not end on a sour note with the typical name calling and moderator warnings. Take note.

Brenda Brenda:

You also missed the sarcasm. Guess that comes with lacking a sense of humour.

Or perhaps because it was typed onto a screen without emotion. Sarcasm is one thing, being able to read and decipher it via black and white words on a screen is a little tough.