[Yogi]

DerbyX DerbyX:

[.

If they have no problem forcing a women to have a baby then should completely support the women forcing them to raise the child.

You know, I may actually be onto something. Forcing some of the posters here to put their money where their mouth is and start doing something about all these children they so ardently fought to save.

This whole 'abortion/free-choice' discussion really needs it's own thread, but I can't let your comment slide.

Women DO have the right to choose, and if they make the wrong choice by getting pregnant when they do not want or cannot care for a child, then it is obvious that they are incapable of making the right choice! Tough life? Tough shit! Make better choices! People need to take responsibility for their actions.

I, along with ALL tax payers DO CONTRIBUTE money towards raising the childeren that others, through their own ignorance helped conceive. A portion of my taxes go toward welfare; housing, dental, medical,clothing, etc. A portion of my taxes go towards daycare subsidies. I have no children in daycare so why am I required to pay for someone elses kids? School taxes. I pay those too. Even though I have no kids attending! A portion of my taxes goes towards all the other 'government subsidized' (read: taxpayer)programs for single parents.

[Brenda]

WHY should they be SINGLE parents? Because the other half that is needed to make a baby, walked out on them. They shouldn't need welfare, subsidized housing and all the other shit you mentioned if BOTH took responsibility.

Thanks for proving a part of my point

[DerbyX]

Benoit Benoit:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Doctors receive recognition for things like heart transplant development and thats even more specific.

A society is not making itself ridiculous by forming a physician that will be recognized only for his/her care to sick patients.

We recognize people for their work with all sorts of people in need.

Women were in need. He helped them.

Thats society getting better.

[DerbyX]

Yogi Yogi:

DerbyX DerbyX:

[.

If they have no problem forcing a women to have a baby then should completely support the women forcing them to raise the child.

You know, I may actually be onto something. Forcing some of the posters here to put their money where their mouth is and start doing something about all these children they so ardently fought to save.

This whole 'abortion/free-choice' discussion really needs it's own thread, but I can't let your comment slide.

Women DO have the right to choose, and if they make the wrong choice by getting pregnant when they do not want or cannot care for a child, then it is obvious that they are incapable of making the right choice! Tough life? Tough shit! Make better choices! People need to take responsibility for their actions.

I, along with ALL tax payers DO CONTRIBUTE money towards raising the childeren that others, through their own ignorance helped conceive. A portion of my taxes go toward welfare; housing, dental, medical,clothing, etc. A portion of my taxes go towards daycare subsidies. I have no children in daycare so why am I required to pay for someone elses kids? School taxes. I pay those too. Even though I have no kids attending! A portion of my taxes goes towards all the other 'government subsidized' (read: taxpayer)programs for single parents.

Get hurt? Tough. You should have been more cautious.

Have an addiction? Too bad. You should never have started whatever you are addicted to.

Caught an STD? Tough. Never should have had sex in the first place.

Lets get this straight. Medicine doesn't work that way. Druggies, fatties, smokers, whatever. They all get treatment even knowing they will keep doing whatever it is that brought them in and when they return they will get treatment again.

Women do make the choice to have sex. The also take responsibility to deal with it when they make the choice to keep and raise the baby, give it up for adoption, or get an abortion. No matter what choice they make it impacts them but he key word is choice. Its theirs to make and thats entirely what Morgentaller fought for and why he is being recognized.

[Yogi]

Brenda Brenda:

WHY should they be SINGLE parents? Because the other half that is needed to make a baby, walked out on them. They shouldn't need welfare, subsidized housing and all the other shit you mentioned if BOTH took responsibility.

Thanks for proving a part of my point

The 'male contributor' does not get a free pass.

I COMPLETELY agree that the 'male', ( I do not consider them 'men' if someone else has to make them take responsibility for their actions), should be held accountable as well. To the point that the less he is WILLING to be involved in the raising of the child, the more $$$$$$$$ he should be made to pay! IF more people were held accountable for their actions which affect others in a negative way I think people would put more thought into their actions. The male is JUST AS RESPONSIBLE as the female and should be held just as accountable.

[DerbyX]

Yogi Yogi:

Brenda Brenda:

WHY should they be SINGLE parents? Because the other half that is needed to make a baby, walked out on them. They shouldn't need welfare, subsidized housing and all the other shit you mentioned if BOTH took responsibility.

Thanks for proving a part of my point

The 'male contributor' does not get a free pass.

I COMPLETELY agree that the 'male', ( I do not consider them 'men' if someone else has to make them take responsibility for their actions), should be held accountable as well. To the point that the less he is WILLING to be involved in the raising of the child, the more $$$$$$$$ he should be made to pay! IF more people were held accountable for their actions which affect others in a negative way I think people would put more thought into their actions. The male is JUST AS RESPONSIBLE as the female and should be held just as accountable.

They are being held accountable. The problem is that you guys seem to think an abortion doesn't constitute that.

It does. Ever talk to a women who made that choice? It isn't like they are getting a hair cut you know. THey understand whats involved and the risks involved. Pro-choice groups provide excellent counselling on all the options. Pro-life groups on the other hand are often thinly disguised religious zealot groups whos counselling consists entirely of telling them they will burn in hell and presenting made up stats showing a huge % of abortion receivers suffering permanent horrible damage, death and a myriad of mental ailments almost all of which has as much credibility as creation science.

They are taking responsibility. They just want the choice to decide what form that responsibility will take.

[Yogi]

[quote="DerbyX"]




Get hurt? Tough. You should have been more cautious.

Have an addiction? Too bad. You should never have started whatever you are addicted to.

Caught an STD? Tough. Never should have had sex in the first place.

No argument from me on these points!

I have been seriously hurt. That is why I pay private insurance as well as pay into healthcare, W.C.B. etc.

I also have/had an addiction which I have/am dealing with. And will have to monitor for the rest of my life. MY addiction. MY problem!

I'll make my stance on abortion very clear. I am not against abortion in certain circumstances. ie; The mother is in danger of dying should she carry the baby to term. Or in cases of rape. I am however completely against abortion when it is used as a 'matter of convenience'. ie; " Pegnancy is not convenient to MY life-style right now"!

And yes, I do KNOW a woman who has had FOUR abortions as a matter of convenience!

As for a STD, NOPE! But from what I understand about them, they are quite painful, and in some cases even deadly. God's way of saying, " Ya shoulda made a better choice EH". No sympathy from me on that one either!

[DerbyX]

Yogi Yogi:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Get hurt? Tough. You should have been more cautious.

Have an addiction? Too bad. You should never have started whatever you are addicted to.

Caught an STD? Tough. Never should have had sex in the first place.

No argument from me on these points!

I have been seriously hurt. That is why I pay private insurance as well as pay into healthcare, W.C.B. etc.

I also have/had an addiction which I have/am dealing with. And will have to monitor for the rest of my life. MY addiction. MY problem!

As for a STD, NOPE! But from what I understand about them, they are quite painful, and in some cases even deadly. God's way of saying, " Ya shoulda made a better choice EH". No sympathy from me on that one either!

Do you honestly want medicine to consist entirely of telling people "tough luck"?

[Yogi]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Do you honestly want medicine to consist entirely of telling people "tough luck"?

Tough luck. Not necessarily, but certainly SEVERE tough love! I'll give you an example.
Many years ago, before I was willing to deal with my addiction MYSELF, I was feeling particularly miserable. Physical, emotional, mentally. I went to the local clinic fully expecting to get a scrip for some 'feel good' pills. As my luck would have it, I was ushered in to see a doctor who was on rotation from the city.He did the cursory exam and then asked me how much alcohol I was drinking on a daily basis. Of course I lied! He then asked me if 'I' thought that I had a drinking problem. I denied that also. He made a few notes in my file and without a word, got up and left the office. I waited about 10 minutes for him to return. He didn't. Isaw him walking across the parking lot, with his hat and coat on, and he got into his car and drove away! I sat in that office for another 15 minutes before it dawned on me that he wasn't coming back. The prick. He had 'my number' and the jig was up! I don't know what he wrote in my file, but I soon found out that there would be no more 'feel-good' pills! In essence he was saying "It's your problem, deal with it"!

[DerbyX]

Yogi Yogi:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Do you honestly want medicine to consist entirely of telling people "tough luck"?

Tough luck. Not necessarily, but certainly SEVERE tough love! I'll give you an example.
Many years ago, before I was willing to deal with my addiction MYSELF, I was feeling particularly miserable. Physical, emotional, mentally. I went to the local clinic fully expecting to get a scrip for some 'feel good' pills. As my luck would have it, I was ushered in to see a doctor who was on rotation from the city.He did the cursory exam and then asked me how much alcohol I was drinking on a daily basis. Of course I lied! He then asked me if 'I' thought that I had a drinking problem. I denied that also. He made a few notes in my file and without a word, got up and left the office. I waited about 10 minutes for him to return. He didn't. Isaw him walking across the parking lot, with his hat and coat on, and he got into his car and drove away! I sat in that office for another 15 minutes before it dawned on me that he wasn't coming back. The prick. He had 'my number' and the jig was up! I don't know what he wrote in my file, but I soon found out that there would be no more 'feel-good' pills! In essence he was saying "It's your problem, deal with it"!

Without knowing all the particulars that doesn't work for so many medical issues its not feasible to list them.

He also may have tailored his response for your archtype. For another he may have done something different. Addictions are beat when people realize they have a problem. That doesn't work with stds or gunshot wounds or pregnanacies.

BTW, before Morgentaller these women were "dealing with it themselves" with tragic results because they didn't have the right to deal with it as they choose.

I'm sorry but your attitude is simply not feasible for medicine as it goes against everything we are taught.

Do you expect ambulances to be sent out to car crashes so that severely injured people can be "officially" told be a paramedic "tough, deal with it" before strolling off?

[Yogi]

DerbyX DerbyX:

I'm sorry but your attitude is simply not feasible for medicine as it goes against everything we are taught.

$1:

Then perhaps it's time 'we' are taught something else!



Do you expect ambulances to be sent out to car crashes so that severely injured people can be "officially" told be a paramedic "tough, deal with it" before strolling off?

I may not always agree with your views and I regard you as educated and fairly intelligent but, 'this' is a foolish statement if ever there was one!

[DerbyX]

Yogi Yogi:

DerbyX DerbyX:

I'm sorry but your attitude is simply not feasible for medicine as it goes against everything we are taught.

$1:

Then perhaps it's time 'we' are taught something else!



Do you expect ambulances to be sent out to car crashes so that severely injured people can be "officially" told be a paramedic "tough, deal with it" before strolling off?

I may not always agree with your views and I regard you as educated and fairly intelligent but, 'this' is a foolish statement if ever there was one!

That was the point. Thats seems to be your point, in that the medical industry should simply make more people heal thyselves so to speak.

[Benoit]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Benoit Benoit:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Doctors receive recognition for things like heart transplant development and thats even more specific.

A society is not making itself ridiculous by forming a physician that will be recognized only for his/her care to sick patients.

We recognize people for their work with all sorts of people in need.

Women were in need. He helped them.

Thats society getting better.

Dr. François Duvalier, known as "Papa Doc" was a dictator of Haiti. Before, he won acclaim for helping the poor fight tropical diseases that ravaged Haiti for years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_Doc

[DerbyX]

Benoit Benoit:

Dr. François Duvalier, known as "Papa Doc" was a dictator of Haiti. Before, he won acclaim for helping the poor fight tropical diseases that ravaged Haiti for years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_Doc

So what? Morgentaller isn't forcing anyone to use his servives but those opposed to him would happily force women to adhere to their beliefs.

Speaking of beliefs, according to you christians your god (among atrocities to numerous to mention) wiped out the entire population of the planet sparing only a few yet you continue to worship him.

Its alright though. He hasn't been nominated for an OoC so we don't need to worry about it I guess.

[hwacker]

Henry Morgentaler has terminal cancer and has two weeks to live.

Too bad

I hope they post his final resting(burning in hell)place so I can relieve myself sometime.