[BRAH]

It's Israeli's fault.

[Zipperfish]

Goober911 Goober911:

The kids murdered on the beach. And just back from the beach is a hotel used by foreign journalists.
Some who responded with first aid.
Bombing a hospital?
It looks and walks like collective punishment.

Maybe. I'd rather just say "They bombed a hospital" and process it that way rather than trying to impugn motives. This is especially true in this conflict where both sides spend an inordinate amount of time on propaganda. If they put half the effort into actually resolving the conflict that they put into their endless propaganda campaigns this thing would have been licked years ago.

[BartSimpson]

Goober911 Goober911:

It looks and walks like collective punishment.

Hamas was freely elected by the Palestinian people and the Palestinian people are then responsible for their vote just the same as the Germans bore the responsibility of voting for the NSDAP.

And Hamas was elected on the strength of their pronouncements to make war on Israel.

Now they deliver on their election promises and Israel predictably defends itself and now you're upset because the victim is fighting back.

And if you want the violence to end all Hamas has to do is to stop firing rockets at Israel. That simple.

Yet while Israel has accepted every brokered cease-fire Hamas has violated every brokered cease-fire.

Sorry chum, but right there Hamas goes on my DILLIGAF list for all of their complaints.

[Zipperfish]

Yes, if you pick a fight with a vastly superior enemy, you should expect to be soundly throunced. Pretty predictable really. Firing rockets into Israel is abaout as effective as expecting to win a fight by throwing popcorn at someone. There is no military option for the Palestinians.

That said, establishing Jewish settlements in Palestinian territories isn't self-defence.

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Yes, if you pick a fight with a vastly superior enemy, you should expect to be soundly throunced. Pretty predictable really. Firing rockets into Israel is abaout as effective as expecting to win a fight by throwing popcorn at someone. There is no military option for the Palestinians.

Yet they attack Israel and the Jew-haters unconditionally take their side.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

That said, establishing Jewish settlements in Palestinian territories isn't self-defence.

Yes, it is. The best way to stop Palestinians from firing from Gaza is to remove the Palestinians and turn it over to Israelis.

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Yet they attack Israel and the Jew-haters unconditionally take their side.

Some people like to back an underdog, I guess. The way I look at it is that both sides have been doing this for at least as long as I remember, so to some extent, this low-level conflict works for both sides.

$1:

, it is. The best way to stop Palestinians from firing from Gaza is to remove the Palestinians and turn it over to Israelis.

This isn't really consistent with your earlier statement. You said that 'And if you want the violence to end all Hamas has to do is to stop firing rockets at Israel,' but then you say you would forcibly remove them from their homes. Removing people from their homes is violence. So if Hamas stopped firing rockets at Israel, the violence would not, in fact, end.

[Goober911]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Yes, if you pick a fight with a vastly superior enemy, you should expect to be soundly throunced. Pretty predictable really. Firing rockets into Israel is abaout as effective as expecting to win a fight by throwing popcorn at someone. There is no military option for the Palestinians.

Yet they attack Israel and the Jew-haters unconditionally take their side.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

That said, establishing Jewish settlements in Palestinian territories isn't self-defence.

Yes, it is. The best way to stop Palestinians from firing from Gaza is to remove the Palestinians and turn it over to Israelis.

Have yet to see any Jew haters here?

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The best way to stop Palestinians from firing from Gaza is to remove the Palestinians and turn it over to Israelis.

This isn't really consistent with your earlier statement. You said that 'And if you want the violence to end all Hamas has to do is to stop firing rockets at Israel,' but then you say you would forcibly remove them from their homes. Removing people from their homes is violence. So if Hamas stopped firing rockets at Israel, the violence would not, in fact, end.

It is consistent.

I said that if Hamas wants the violence to end all they have to do is to stop shooting.

But the best solution for Israel is to remove the Palestinians and turn the land over to Israelis - an act that would make all of Israel safer.

I'm not saying they'll do it, but it's what I'd do in their place.

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

It is consistent.

I said that if Hamas wants the violence to end all they have to do is to stop shooting.

But the best solution for Israel is to remove the Palestinians and turn the land over to Israelis - an act that would make all of Israel safer.

I'm not saying they'll do it, but it's what I'd do in their place.

Perhaps some Palestinaians believe that is what Israel will do if they stop fighting?

[BartSimpson]

Goober911 Goober911:

Have yet to see any Jew haters here?

Oh, yeah. We've had quite a few over the years. They come and they go. They may couch their bigotry as being only against 'Zionists' but sooner or later they can be counted upon to reveal their true colors.

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Perhaps some Palestinaians believe that is what Israel will do if they stop fighting?

Nonsense. If that was Israel's goal then they could have done it in 1967, again in 1973, or any number of times since when world opinion was in their favor. Instead the Israelis traded territory in Gaza for peace and they got missiles in return.

[Goober911]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Oh, yeah. We've had quite a few over the years. They come and they go. They may couch their bigotry as being only against 'Zionists' but sooner or later they can be counted upon to reveal their true colors.

No different than these that hate Muslims, and their reasoning is wacked.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

It is consistent.

I said that if Hamas wants the violence to end all they have to do is to stop shooting.

But the best solution for Israel is to remove the Palestinians and turn the land over to Israelis - an act that would make all of Israel safer.

I'm not saying they'll do it, but it's what I'd do in their place.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Yes, it is. The best way to stop Palestinians from firing from Gaza is to remove the Palestinians and turn it over to Israelis.

Are you familiar with War Crimes and the UN Convention on Genocide?
Or do in Gaza what they are doing piecemeal in the West Bank and Jerusalem, to prevent an economically viable state?

[BartSimpson]

Goober911 Goober911:

No different than these that hate Muslims, and their reasoning is wacked.

Someone once said that there were no moderate moslems, just moslems. He also clarified that moslems either wage jihad or they support it, elsewise they are not moslems. Would you say that this person hates moslems?

Goober911 Goober911:

Are you familiar with War Crimes and the UN Convention on Genocide?

Acutely.

Goober911 Goober911:

Or do in Gaza what they are doing piecemeal in the West Bank and Jerusalem, to prevent an economically viable state?

If 'preventing an economically viable state' is necessary for peace then so be it. I can only imagine the horrors that an economically viable Hamas would unleash on the world.

[Goober911]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Goober911 Goober911:

No different than these that hate Muslims, and their reasoning is wacked.

Someone once said that there were no moderate moslems, just moslems. He also clarified that moslems either wage jihad or they support it, elsewise they are not moslems. Would you say that this person hates moslems?

Goober911 Goober911:

Are you familiar with War Crimes and the UN Convention on Genocide?

Acutely.

Goober911 Goober911:

Or do in Gaza what they are doing piecemeal in the West Bank and Jerusalem, to prevent an economically viable state?

If 'preventing an economically viable state' is necessary for peace then so be it. I can only imagine the horrors that an economically viable Hamas would unleash on the world.

Ahh Jihad, has a variety of meanings. It can be to lead a life of peace and helping others.
http://www.al-islam.org/articles/peace- ... mmad-rizvi

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Nonsense. If that was Israel's goal then they could have done it in 1967, again in 1973, or any number of times since when world opinion was in their favor. Instead the Israelis traded territory in Gaza for peace and they got missiles in return.

Well Israel isn't making things any easier on themselves by settling those lands. And Palestinians aren't making things easier on themslves by voting in Hamas. But like I said before, since they've been doing the same thing for decades, a low-level conflict is perhaps the most stable solution.