[RUEZ]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Tricks Tricks:

What is considered a skilled tradesworker?

Any layabout who can vote L

Save your arrogant blather. I'm sure there are a lot of conservatives that work at this POS union busting plant.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

andyt andyt:

Well, that's all those workers deserve. How dare they want gadgets when at $12 they would still earn enough to have a roof over their heads and three squares. How dare they want more.

What I want to know is with this continual kicking of the middle class, who's going to buy all the crap that apparently our economy needs to maintain prosperity? People on here are glad when some working stiff gets a kick in the nuts, deride them for wanting toys, but don't explain how our economy will function with a few rich and many poor. Nor exactly why they seem to see themselves not getting kicked in the nuts. I mean with a falling tax base, the govt should be cutting back. Cut back civil service wages, you know, like the military and police. Oh, wait, I guess those jobs are safe because the rich will need them to defend them from the poor. Have to privatize them tho, since govt won't have the money for them.

Oh for Christ's sake andy, now yer making specious arguments about nothing. NO-ONE on this board has even remotely suggested that the diesel workers in London only deserve $12 an hour. Again, it's $16.50/hr and it's still bullshit expecting them to take a cut from $35/hr. I know London quite well and there's not really anyplace someone used to making $35/hr would want to live on half of that.
Yer trying to "cross-pollinate" two threads that have nothing to do with each other whilst trying to make a point that doesn't exist.

Sure, everything in isolation. Of course it's all connected, it's all part of the same bullshit that's going down. And I'm certainly not the first to ask with a shrinking middle class who's going to do all the consuming that we're told is needed to re-energize our economies? We exhortations to spend, because otherwise we'll enter a new recession, while at the same time more and more people earning a decent wage are being pushed to take less or just pushed out. And guys like you are gleeful about it, because those bastards shouldn't want all those gadgets, be thankful for what the job givers give them.

Yeah, that's right andy, every fucking thing sold in Canada is 100% Canadian made/produced. You just keep kidding yourself that your computer is made by 100% Canadian, highly skilled workers. Or iPhones, or iPads. Maybe RIM would be in a lot better shape if people had invested in their products instead of jumping all over Apple products simply because they had an Apple logo on 'em which I guess makes the owners of the products "cool" or something. You rail on about who's gonna buy what, when the reality is, a good chunk of what's being bought in the way of consumer goods, ie: "stuff" these days, isn't being made here anymore, and in some cases, never was.

And how dare you accuse me of being gleeful over this. I guess I just grew up in a different era where if you couldn't afford something unnecessary, you did without or saved up for it. I know, it's a horrid concept to think of.
Why settle for that crappy 36" flatscreen for your living room when you can dive nicely into hawk for that monster 72"?
There's a few benefits to saving up for "stuff". There's a good chance the price will have gone down after 6 months or so. Also, cash talks. If you save up enough to pay cash for a larger ticket item, you can usually get a deal like the equivalent of the sales taxes off, or an even bigger discount. Purchasing floor models is another way to save money on larger ticket purchases. Although it has happened, I've rarely paid full retail for things like cars, TVs, home or car stereos, computers. Even when I bought my 1st house I waited until I had enough to pay 25% down to avoid having CMHC taking a piece of my hard earned cash. It also meant paying less money in interest.
Patience has its own rewards. Greed usually leaves the average person in debt.

[andyt]

Read the paper how people are exhorted to buy stuff to boost Canada's economy. It's not just manufacturing, but apparently the meme is that retailing crap brings jobs. Should those people retailing the crap really not be able to afford any of it themselves?

I accuse you of being gleeful, because that's all you ever focus on - people spending beyond their means. You're blaming the victim for wanting the crap they are told every day to want. How about blaming the people who push the stuff? With your pov, all that happens is people keep spiraling down, because they're not supposed to complain about the rotten deal they're getting, just make do, make do, with less and less, while the greed pigs keep getting more and more. You're just trying to push us back to Victorian times.

We all need to cut back on useless crap, because it's not sustainable. But that should start at the top, where the biggest buying frenzy is happening, not at the bottom blaming some one for wanting a cell phone. And, our whole economy isn't set up to handle cutting back consumption, it's set up to consume more and more. Because even if we don't make a lot of that stuff, we're very eager to sell the producers of it our raw materials to make that stuff. If the west stops consuming, as is happening now, China doesn't build so much crap - as is happening now. So they will start importing less of our raw materials, as you will soon see. Then we'll really have the wailing and gnashing of teeth, as even ecoraping doesn't bring in the bucks any more.

[saturn_656]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Can you tell me the last Canadian company that bought up a US company and moved production to Canada?

Note: It may be the Canadians selling these companies but the Americans are the ones that summarily move production out of the country.

However in the case of Western Star Trucks, the last I heard the company had planned on shuttering the Oregon plant and moving production to an even more deserving place, Mexico.

This isn't an isolated case, I get the same vibes from CAT that I did when US Steel was pulling all of its bullshit with Stelco.

http://www.law.com/jsp/cc/PubArticleCC. ... 4224996067

$1:

For more than two years, Pittsburgh-based United States Steel Corporation has been engaged in a mammoth court battle with the Canadian government that could set a precedent for the standards to which foreign investors in Canada will be held when they make promises to get approval for an acquisition. It is the first time an enforcement action under the Investment Canada Act has been brought in court, and so far nothing has gone the company's way.

The saga began in 2007, when U.S. Steel bought Stelco Inc., a troubled Canadian steel plant in Hamilton, Ontario. To win approval for the deal, U.S. Steel gave 31 undertakings, or commitments, to Canada's then industry minister, who cleared the deal in October 2007.

One of these undertakings committed the company to a 10 percent increase in the annual level of production at the former Stelco plant over a three-year term. Another agreed to maintain an average aggregate employment level of 3,105 workers.

The ink was scarcely dry on the deal before the world entered the current recession. In March 2009 U.S. Steel shut down the plant to move production south of the border and laid off 1,500 workers, bringing total job losses to 2,190.

When the company informed industry minister Tony Clement of its actions, he responded with a letter demanding that the company comply with its undertakings. U.S. Steel's lengthy response failed to satisfy him, and he turned to Canadian federal court to order the company to comply with its obligations—and impose a penalty of $10,000 a day for each breach of the undertakings effective November 1, 2008. U.S. Steel is vigorously fighting back, though it has lost five times in federal courts in Ottawa and Toronto, and the case is expected to end up in Canada's Supreme Court.

Meanwhile, the company has hired back some of its workforce and restarted operations, but production has been bedeviled by lock-outs and worker unrest.

Lawyers say the case sends a clear message. "For anyone who was in any doubt, in circumstances where the government sees a serious breach of an undertaking, they will bring a proceeding," notes Stikeman Elliott partner Shawn Neyla.

[BartSimpson]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Save your arrogant blather.

Save it? Personally, I invest.

[Thanos]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

RUEZ RUEZ:

Save your arrogant blather.

Save it? Personally, I invest.

AKA, I'm all right Jack, so keep your hand off my stack.

Just for you and the other Randoids around here, although I'm 100% certain you'll all totally miss the point if it;

[bootlegga]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

CAT is not negotiating in good faith. A pay cut in excess of 50% is not reasonable.

I'm no fan of unions, but in this case the union is not the biggest arse at the negotiating table.

Exactly! +5

[bootlegga]

RUEZ RUEZ:

If American companies are going to continually buy up Canadian companies and move production, perhaps the governmnet should be reviewing all corporate takeovers. This also happened to Western Star in Kelowna. Frieghtliner bought them and within two years the factory was shuttered and move to Oregon with all it's high paying jobs.

They do, but most get rubber stamped by the government (no matter if its Liberal or Conservative) .

[Gunnair]

bootlegga bootlegga:

RUEZ RUEZ:

If American companies are going to continually buy up Canadian companies and move production, perhaps the governmnet should be reviewing all corporate takeovers. This also happened to Western Star in Kelowna. Frieghtliner bought them and within two years the factory was shuttered and move to Oregon with all it's high paying jobs.

They do, but most get rubber stamped by the government (no matter if its Liberal or Conservative) .

Wonder what will happen with RIM once it's taken over?

[EyeBrock]

It will be broken up, stripped and absorbed. Nobody to blame besides those two guys who built it and failed to keep up.

[Gunnair]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It will be broken up, stripped and absorbed. Nobody to blame besides those two guys who built it and failed to keep up.

Agreed. Betcha they're not taking a pay cut though. Sadly, and here is where I have some empathy with the OWS crowd, it's the investors who lose money on the ineptitude of RIM's leaders. James Balsillie and Mike Lazaridis continue to rake in big bucks (about 1 mill a year) even though the are piloting the company into a financial maelstrom. The investors who bought high and will sell low don't even get the tiny satisfaction that those two clowns suffered along with them. These guys are millionaires that keep making millions even as their lack of leadership sinks the company.

They will walk away - millionaires - and the investor walks away with loss.

These are the fuck heads OWS should be focusing on, and see how much traction they would get from it.

[OnTheIce]

Gunnair Gunnair:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It will be broken up, stripped and absorbed. Nobody to blame besides those two guys who built it and failed to keep up.

Agreed. Betcha they're not taking a pay cut though. Sadly, and here is where I have some empathy with the OWS crowd, it's the investors who lose money on the ineptitude of RIM's leaders. James Balsillie and Mike Lazaridis continue to rake in big bucks (about 1 mill a year) even though the are piloting the company into a financial maelstrom. The investors who bought high and will sell low don't even get the tiny satisfaction that those two clowns suffered along with them. These guys are millionaires that keep making millions even as their lack of leadership sinks the company.

They will walk away - millionaires - and the investor walks away with loss.

.

As they should.

Their idea. Their company. They took all the risk.

Their ideas and company put MILLIONS into the pockets of Canadians, thousands of well paying jobs and returns for investors alike.

They owe you and us NOTHING.

Companies rise and fall. Competition is part of business. Time to get a reality check and remove your head from your ass.

[OnTheIce]

And by the way, RIM employs 17,000+ people...and kept their business in CANADA...and you still treat them like shit.

Fuckin' brilliant.

[Gunnair]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Gunnair Gunnair:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It will be broken up, stripped and absorbed. Nobody to blame besides those two guys who built it and failed to keep up.

Agreed. Betcha they're not taking a pay cut though. Sadly, and here is where I have some empathy with the OWS crowd, it's the investors who lose money on the ineptitude of RIM's leaders. James Balsillie and Mike Lazaridis continue to rake in big bucks (about 1 mill a year) even though the are piloting the company into a financial maelstrom. The investors who bought high and will sell low don't even get the tiny satisfaction that those two clowns suffered along with them. These guys are millionaires that keep making millions even as their lack of leadership sinks the company.

They will walk away - millionaires - and the investor walks away with loss.

.

As they should.

Their idea. Their company. They took all the risk.

Their ideas and company put MILLIONS into the pockets of Canadians, thousands of well paying jobs and returns for investors alike.

They owe you and us NOTHING.

Companies rise and fall. Competition is part of business. Time to get a reality check and remove your head from your ass.

Bullshit. Without investors, they would have accomplished nothing. There is a reason why a company goes public and where do you think the money goes when joe public buys that stock?

They did not take all the risk, they squandered away the money of investors.

I can't believe you even posted that piece of drivel. You're like a right hand andy about this...

[Gunnair]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

And by the way, RIM employs 17,000+ people...and kept their business in CANADA...and you still treat them like shit.

Fuckin' brilliant.

Who treats them like shit?