[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

You're losing your rightwing cred here, Bart.

Hardly. This thing is a CDN$3bn tax cut. That's 3bn going back into the BC economy and that's never a bad thing.

Care to give an accounting of how it's a tax cut? It shifts 2 billion in taxes back on business from consumers - it that what you're cheering. As for govt revenues, they were supposed to be neutral - ie no increase in govt revenue. And it shifts 1.6 bil in tax money back to the feds from the province - is that what you're giddy about? Are you sure you know what you're talking about here? You're cheering along with the NDP and the labor movement in this case.

[xerxes]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

xerxes xerxes:

Nope. Because I voted to scrap it.

+1 to the right-wing fanatic!

Don't get your hopes up yet. I'm still a good little socialist. I just thought that the HST was an inflationary tax and a BS one at that.

[herbie]

Well that's it then! With the HST gone, I won't be able to upgrade my staff with tax-credit funded robots. It will cost me thousands per month in wages so prices won't go down and you'll have to put up with Huh? What? I dunno? and watching them all run for a bathroom break when they see customers coming.
In other words, nothing changes. Except, as usual, I have to do a lot of paperwork for no fucking reward.

Someone asked what I'd do if I won the 6-49. I told them I'd just keep running a business in BC until it was all gone.

[docfeelgood]

Abolishment of the HST was the right thing to do. The voters of BC are not stupid.

The HST was only going to be "revenue neutral" to the government at 12%, not 10%. It was going to lose money at 10%.

"Revenue Neutrality" for the government is frankly irrelevant to the taxpayer. It is looking at taxes through the lens of the government only. It would be "revenue neutral" if the provincial government got all of it's money from a fairy godperson and stopped all taxes from the citizens, and also revenue neutral if it got all of it's money from income taxes instead of consumption tax. I don't know how the heck that ever became an argument.

I heard Andrew Coyne on the radio yesterday misinforming people about the previous PST. He confidently stated that the poor ignorant people of BC didn't know that they were already paying the PST in a "hidden" manner on items that were PST exempt. I've read other out of province accountants arguing the benefits of the HST make the same argument. It is a false rgument. As a business person, who imported, wholesaled and retailed, I had a PST number, and did not pay the tax at either the wholesale or retail level. My wholesale customers similarly did not pay PST to me. it was ONLY charged at the end user, retail level. The PST was administered in a pathetic, piece meal fashion after being amended year after year by different governments. This is an ideal opportunity to fix it.

The HST gives the feds power over our provincial taxation that it never had before. I was fundamentally opposed to this on a broad, fundmental basis. The division of taxtion power has it's own benefits.

Finally, adding the tax to home sales and real estate agent fees made home buying even more difficult for first time buyers and early sellers - there is almost an entire second down payment needed to cover that tax. I think that was bad for a lot of people.

The HST credits were not for low income "families". It was only for low income families who had children. That was a mischaracterization that ticked me off as it was strictly spin and not accurate fact.

Regular people had less money in their pocket, and there was nothing associated with the HST that forced those that benefitted most (manufacturing and primary inductry) to engage in activities that would force an increase in jobs, training or employment. A year out, employment in those industries is down, not up.

The trickle down theory is always applauded by those who benefit most, but without comcommitant legislative ties to the expected overall social benefits of job creation, there is really nothing in it for anyone but stockholders.

[herbie]

You're correct in some ways. If you SOLD the goods, you were PST exempt. If you kept and used the goods, you paid PST as an end customer.
So just like I joked, I had to pay PST to upgrade my workers (robots) but under HST I got to claim them back. A huge capital cost for outfits like sawmills who HAD TO upgrade and all the new mines that require equipment.
I have to finish remodelling my store and replacing furniture and equipment by March 2013. Then again, I will save $600 a month tax on my Internet line as I resell the connections, and almost $100 on my commercial rent when we go back!

[Freakinoldguy]

herbie herbie:

How many dollars hiring back staff to administer the PST?
THe smart move would be to come out and say they will respect the referendum and return to the PST/GST as soon as the HST agreement expires, so they don't have to pay back the $1.6 billion.
In two years 45% of people accepted the HST. 45% of the half that bothered to vote. I might have said that if I was premier. Half the people didn't bother to vote so we'll count them as NO (keep the HST) votes. It obviously didn't mean that much to them.

So, do you remember any press releases or union howling about PST staff being laid off, fired, or shot at sunrise?

I think they all kept their jobs and were likely just assigned to different branches of Government so it shouldn't be a big deal to get our taxation offices up and running again. As the matter of fact they probably all kept their jobs and we were still paying for their wages.

When you think about this it's completely incomprehensible that our furry little friends in the BC Lieberal Party would actually, lay off tax staff, spend money that they knew was questionable and lie to the people of BC every step of the way, when everyone else in the Province except them knew how this HST referendum would likely play out.

[herbie]

Oh hell new, those employees were all too petty, mean and spiteful to let go. They'd let go every single public employee who did real work before they'd cut a single miserable asshole from that department. They've had years screwing and jerking over the public. Everyone is probably on the Christmas card list of every bailiff, repo man and tow truck driver in the province.
Ran afoul of them many years back. First they snatched the truck so I couldn't easily go to work and earn the money to pay them. Then they snatched all the tools so I couldn't do any work at all, couldn't feed the kids let alone pay them. Then they added about 10,000% in penalties so even if I got head of BC Ferries and flown to work in a private jet and earned $1,000,000 a year I couldn't make the payments. Then I found the money to pay them back and they settled for the going interest.
But the truck and tools were sold, so too fucking bad for me.
Had to cash in the RRSP to pay them and other bills off and incurred a $40,000 tax and start all over with Revenue Canada on my ass. Fortunately they bothered to send someone to check things out and discovered there was no vault of gold hidden under the landlord's trailer and the vehicle wasn't worth a towing charge. Allowed me nearly a decade to pay back the tax and only froze the bank account a couple times when it was short.
Good times then, ineligible for EI or welfare, no jobs, no vehicle, economy so fucked we couldn't sell the house for a nickel more than the mortgage... lovely times.
Nasty bunch of pricks who know they can do anything they want so they do it all the time. Don't give a shit about actually accommodating anyone to get their nickel, they enjoy fucking people over.

[Freakinoldguy]

herbie herbie:

Oh hell new, those employees were all too petty, mean and spiteful to let go. They'd let go every single public employee who did real work before they'd cut a single miserable asshole from that department. They've had years screwing and jerking over the public. Everyone is probably on the Christmas card list of every bailiff, repo man and tow truck driver in the province.
Ran afoul of them many years back. First they snatched the truck so I couldn't easily go to work and earn the money to pay them. Then they snatched all the tools so I couldn't do any work at all, couldn't feed the kids let alone pay them. Then they added about 10,000% in penalties so even if I got head of BC Ferries and flown to work in a private jet and earned $1,000,000 a year I couldn't make the payments. Then I found the money to pay them back and they settled for the going interest.
But the truck and tools were sold, so too fucking bad for me.
Had to cash in the RRSP to pay them and other bills off and incurred a $40,000 tax and start all over with Revenue Canada on my ass. Fortunately they bothered to send someone to check things out and discovered there was no vault of gold hidden under the landlord's trailer and the vehicle wasn't worth a towing charge. Allowed me nearly a decade to pay back the tax and only froze the bank account a couple times when it was short.
Good times then, ineligible for EI or welfare, no jobs, no vehicle, economy so fucked we couldn't sell the house for a nickel more than the mortgage... lovely times.
Nasty bunch of pricks who know they can do anything they want so they do it all the time. Don't give a shit about actually accommodating anyone to get their nickel, they enjoy fucking people over.

Exactly.

Which is the point I was trying to make. You may be able to reassign a taxman but you sure as hell aren't ever gonna be able to fire one and sleep soundly at night.

Nope, I'm pretty sure they're all still working in the darkest recesses of the Provincial government buildings, never seeing the light of day, patiently waiting till they can arise again and wreak havoc on an unsuspecting human population.