[OnTheIce]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Benn Benn:

Reality to Canada Post, you no longer have a monopoly on the way letters etc are sent around, welcome to the 21st century, take the $19 an hour, its a great starting salary for a job that really "should not" even require high school.

Anyone know what this dangerous technology they have implemented here in Winnipeg is?

$19 just to start plus full benefits and pension.

Ok...the $19 to start is a proposal. A proposal which is being fought. Currently I think the starting wage is $23 per hour, but before you run out and get an application...

You will start as a CASUAL with NO BENEFITS. You may only get 5 hours per week. You may get nothing for months and yes, you may get some weeks that you work 40 hours. You will likely be casual for 2 years depending upon where you are in the country. Often what happens is that you will get a call at 11pm asking if you will come to work for 1am and work until 6am. There you go, 5 hours and thanks for coming out - wait by the phone and we'll call you when we call you.

After that 2 years (or more), you might get to be part-time and that's when they consider you a permanent employee. You get 3 weeks vacation and benefits when you become a permanent employee. You will be on midnights but you will get 20-28 hours per week. Good luck with that second job working midnight until 5 am. You will likely stay part time for 2 more years depending on which city that you live in.

If you get full time inside you'll be on midnights for 10-15 or more years and if you go outside as a letter carrier - GOOD LUCK. When you see the letter carrier on a nice day 'strolling up your block' it looks like a great job. You don't realize that they have been in sorting mail from about 7 am (some 6:30am and some later, perhaps 8:30am) and they have likely 4 hours of walking (average about 15KM) with loaded bags.

Every business has workers to suit various needs of the business. Part-time, full time, casual and seasonal. That's how it works.

The rules didn't change, they've always been like that and if you don't like it, fuck off and find work somewhere else.

It's like these assholes that move to Toronto on the streetcar line and then bitch about the noise. The streetcars have been around for 100 years.

Don't take a part-time or casual role then bitch about it afterwards. If you need full time hours, find a better job!

[Curtman]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Don't take a part-time or casual role then bitch about it afterwards. If you need full time hours, find a better job!

Or better yet, go out and win the lottery dummy!

Thanks for making me laugh.

[smorgdonkey]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Smorgdink Smorgdink:

I'll break in there and answer that for you without reading the collective agreement (and it IS a long one-I agree) as I have seen you and Lemmy arguing before (and he was wrong then too)...the benefits are definitely contributed to by the employer and the sick days indeed are also paid by the employer.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to read it before talking out your arse.

First of all...I want to credit you on changing my 'name' in the quote thing. You know, I've NEVER seen anyone do THAT before. Man - you REALLY got me. You are so creative and hard to match wits with!!

I have the Collective Agreement not even two feet away from me - if you had the capacity for abstract thought or social skills enough to recognize it, you would have perhaps realized that I was suggesting that I would answer so that he wouldn't have to read it. See? I would answer so that he wouldn't have to read it (I typed that second one WAAAAAAY slower).

I'll leave the "talking out your arse" to you d00d...you seem too highly adept in that area for anyone to take your crown.

[smorgdonkey]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Every business has workers to suit various needs of the business. Part-time, full time, casual and seasonal. That's how it works.

The rules didn't change, they've always been like that and if you don't like it, fuck off and find work somewhere else.

It's like these assholes that move to Toronto on the streetcar line and then bitch about the noise. The streetcars have been around for 100 years.

Don't take a part-time or casual role then bitch about it afterwards. If you need full time hours, find a better job!

What the f are you even talking about? I presented the facts so that people don't think "damn, $19 per hour to start and full benefits and 7 weeks vacation and geese that pop out golden eggs" because that's what I see all of the time.

YOU were the one stating 'full benefits and pension'...so eat your foot and STFU.

I get a kick out of dudes like you...spout some incorrect BS and then when you get called out on it and shown that you don't know what you are talking about you get all indignant and tough.

F'n impressive man. You are a bone holster.

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

That's one long agreement. So go ahead and quote the part that says the employer makes no contribution to pension and health benefits if you can.

That's not what I said. I said that management doesn't make all the contribution.

Oh, no you di'unt.

Lemmy Lemmy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

$19 just to start plus full benefits and pension.

How do you figure the "plus" part? Benefits and pension are deducted from pay.

Sure reads like you are saying benefits are paid for completely by workers. Otherwise obviously there is a plus part - the part paid by the employer. And this from a labor "econimist" Sheesh.

[andyt]

Smorg - it sounds like you're saying as usual the inside workers are the ones going on strike? The media never seems to be able to distinguish between the two. The outside workers seem much more reasonable as a rule.

I think posties are in a tough postion. They've historically had a pretty good deal for the skills required for their job. I'm happy with that, I think we should be paying people at the lower end of the pay scale a living wage. But, they are losing their leverage with the reduction in mail volume, and IMO should tread very carefully in regard to their demands. Try to preserve jobs instead of going for too many increases.

[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

Oh, no you di'unt.

Lemmy Lemmy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

$19 just to start plus full benefits and pension.

How do you figure the "plus" part? Benefits and pension are deducted from pay.

Sure reads like you are saying benefits are paid for completely by workers. Otherwise obviously there is a plus part - the part paid by the employer. And this from a labor "econimist" Sheesh.

Can you fucking read? What did OTI say? You've got it quoted there. See the words PLUS and FULL?

[smorgdonkey]

andyt andyt:

Smorg - it sounds like you're saying as usual the inside workers are the ones going on strike? The media never seems to be able to distinguish between the two. The outside workers seem much more reasonable as a rule.

No, there happens to be a distinct group of workers who work in more rural areas and they have their own union...not all of the areas that may 'seem rural' are under that union but many/most are. CUPW includes inside and outside workers as well but the only ones that are on strike are the ones in whichever city in particular is targeted that day. Years ago the letter carriers did have their own union before there was a vote of some sort which chose one of two main entities to represent the bulk of the workforce.

andyt andyt:

I think posties are in a tough postion. They've historically had a pretty good deal for the skills required for their job. I'm happy with that, I think we should be paying people at the lower end of the pay scale a living wage. But, they are losing their leverage with the reduction in mail volume, and IMO should tread very carefully in regard to their demands. Try to preserve jobs instead of going for too many increases.

The 'mail volume' issue is a very tricky issue. The declining statistic which is always thrown around in the media (put out by the corporation) is "first class mail has declined by 17% since 2006".

The truth is that to get that 17% reduction, they used ONLY the first class mail that goes TO THE DOOR...so if you can imagine the new 'super boxes' and so on that have been installed since 2006 you would begin to get a picture of just how much first class mail that they are not counting...because that is not 'to the door'. Canada Post plays all of the corporate tricks believe me. In fact they even barred an MP from entering a couple of their facilities in Quebec recently:
http://www.ndp.ca/press/canada-post-cor ... facilities

The position of management is coming from the position that the former head of CPC (Moya Greene) has left the corporation in. She decided that she would BORROW $2.5 BILLION to purchase new machinery and so on, then took her big bonus and went to Britain to F up their mail system. The remaining people in upper management don't want to admit that Moya used CPC like a dirty old rag so they just keep pushing in the direction that she was going with it.

As for the wages and benefits of Canada Post employees...look at the average cost of a house in any city in Canada and you will see that a Canada Post employee is just a plain old lower middle class worker whose benefits and wages have been slowly declining over the years (even Stats Canada says that $25 per hour is the average rate of pay in Canada). I think most jobs are underpaid but believe me when I say that MANY people who start at the post office are 'scared into reality' when they start and see what the job really involves. In fact 7 of 10 people who start letter carrying quit. Interesting isn't it?

[andyt]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

In fact 7 of 10 people who start letter carrying quit. Interesting isn't it?

I recently reconnected with a highschool friend who had just retired as a letter carrier. When I knew him he seemed to have a pretty good job for reasonable pay, bought a house on it, raised a family etc. He said he's very glad he's retired, since the job has changed so much, and as you say, most people don't last at it.

Whatever the true volume of mail is, we know it's a declining business, and the union should be careful to preserve their jobs, rather than pushing for more and more. Especially with the Haper government, who, I'm sure, would love to privatize the PO. Never mind that it turns a profit, its the principle of the thing for them.

[andyt]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

$19 just to start plus full benefits and pension.

Lemmy Lemmy:

How do you figure the "plus" part? Benefits and pension are deducted from pay.

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

Oh, no you di'unt. Sure reads like you are saying benefits are paid for completely by workers. Otherwise obviously there is a plus part - the part paid by the employer. And this from a labor "econimist" Sheesh.

Can you fucking read? What did OTI say? You've got it quoted there. See the words PLUS and FULL?

So you're both wrong? I can accept that.

[Benn]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Benn Benn:

Reality to Canada Post, you no longer have a monopoly on the way letters etc are sent around, welcome to the 21st century, take the $19 an hour, its a great starting salary for a job that really "should not" even require high school.

Anyone know what this dangerous technology they have implemented here in Winnipeg is?

$19 just to start plus full benefits and pension.

Ok...the $19 to start is a proposal. A proposal which is being fought. Currently I think the starting wage is $23 per hour, but before you run out and get an application...

You will start as a CASUAL with NO BENEFITS. You may only get 5 hours per week. You may get nothing for months and yes, you may get some weeks that you work 40 hours. You will likely be casual for 2 years depending upon where you are in the country. Often what happens is that you will get a call at 11pm asking if you will come to work for 1am and work until 6am. There you go, 5 hours and thanks for coming out - wait by the phone and we'll call you when we call you.

After that 2 years (or more), you might get to be part-time and that's when they consider you a permanent employee. You get 3 weeks vacation and benefits when you become a permanent employee. You will be on midnights but you will get 20-28 hours per week. Good luck with that second job working midnight until 5 am. You will likely stay part time for 2 more years depending on which city that you live in.

If you get full time inside you'll be on midnights for 10-15 or more years and if you go outside as a letter carrier - GOOD LUCK. When you see the letter carrier on a nice day 'strolling up your block' it looks like a great job. You don't realize that they have been in sorting mail from about 7 am (some 6:30am and some later, perhaps 8:30am) and they have likely 4 hours of walking (average about 15KM) with loaded bags.

Have the violins stopped playing that sad tune yet?

As OntheIce said, they know what they are signing up for and choose to do it, only a tool actually gets hired then turns around and bitches about what they agreed to do.

Also, just because someone is part time casual and has crappy hours does not mean they should get paid more. Pay should have nothing to do with the fact you get few hours and are PT or full time.

[andyt]

Benn Benn:

Have the violins stopped playing that sad tune yet?

As OntheIce said, they know what they are signing up for and choose to do it, only a tool actually gets hired then turns around and bitches about what they agreed to do.

Also, just because someone is part time casual and has crappy hours does not mean they should get paid more. Pay should have nothing to do with the fact you get few hours and are PT or full time.

Yep, just be a serf and accept whatever your employer chooses to give you. Practice tugging your forelock too, it helps.

[ShepherdsDog]

Man Andy.....all that bitterness. Small wonder why they only let you serve the coffee, and not actually make it.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Nice play on words

[Yogi]

The current Canada Post system is the 'horse & buggy' of communication in todays world.
By the unions own admission, " volumes are down in the last few years, so are profits, but we still want more money & benefits".

Time to put 'us' out of their misery. A much better job can/has been done by private contractors.