[Lemmy]

Isn't that what I said initially? Do try to follow along. Loopholes exist that allow protectionism on certain grounds. But those cases where one country is purposely misusing a loophole in the law for protectionist reasons (like the Ontario beer example) are, as far as I'm aware, product-specific. This new levy isn't like those. This sounds like the Yanks have cooked up something new.

[rickc]

andyt andyt:

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

I doubt if Ontario only taxes imported beer in cans. My guess would be they tax all beer in cans more, both domestic and imported.

Yes, they tax all beer in cans, but since most imported beer is canned and most domestic beer is bottled, it's a defacto tariff on imported beer.

Yep, but that sort of thing is allowed. I'm sure both countries do those sorts of things.

I have a question for you. I have never seen a bottle [or can for that matter] of Budweiser [or Coors] beer sold in Canada,that was brewed and bottled in the States. Not one. Do they exist? Did Canada get some special arrangement that American beer sold in Canada has to be brewed and bottled in Canada?

[Lemmy]

Americans license their brands to Canadian brewers, so many of them are made in Canada. Lots aren't though (the most popular being Miller Genuine Draft). It doesn't have to be brewed in Ontario to be sold here, but it ends up being cheaper and more available if it is. The retail sale of beer in Ontario happens, for the most part, through the Beer Stores. These are jointly owned by Labatt and Molson and they exert a significant amount of protectionist pressure all on their own. Beer is also sold at the LCBO, but in much smaller quantities. Ontario brewers know that, since they control the means of distribution, they can tell the Americans "Hey, let us brew some of your brands and we'll split the profits. Otherwise you can continue to export it here, face the can tax, and forget about seeing your brands anywhere but at the LCBO". This pressure, combined with the tax on cans, has pretty much extored the American brewers into letting Labatt and Molson brew their brands. There are also interprovincial trade barriers. Labatt and Molson take fees from non-Ontario brands (like Keiths and Moosehead) to sell those brands at the Beer Store. It's really quite a nice cartel Molson and Labatt are running here.

[rickc]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Americans license their brands to Canadian brewers, so many of them are made in Canada. Lots aren't though (the most popular being Miller Genuine Draft). It doesn't have to be brewed in Ontario to be sold here, but it ends up being cheaper and more available if it is. The retail sale of beer in Ontario happens, for the most part, through the Beer Stores. These are jointly owned by Labatt and Molson and they exert a significant amount of protectionist pressure all on their own. Beer is also sold at the LCBO, but in much smaller quantities. Ontario brewers know that, since they control the means of distribution, they can tell the Americans "Hey, let us brew some of your brands and we'll split the profits. Otherwise you can continue to export it here, face the can tax, and forget about seeing your brands anywhere but at the LCBO". This pressure, combined with the tax on cans, has pretty much extored the American brewers into letting Labatt and Molson brew their brands. There are also interprovincial trade barriers. Labatt and Molson take fees from non-Ontario brands (like Keiths and Moosehead) to sell those brands at the Beer Store. It's really quite a nice cartel Molson and Labatt are running here.

Thanks! That explains a lot. When I lived in New Brunswick I used to drink a lot of Alpine lager [still one of my favorite beers when I can get it]. I took a train trip out to Ontario. I remember trying to order Alpine in the bars. Everyone looked at me like I was crazy. I had no idea that Alpine was only sold in the Maritimes. A loss for the rest of Canada I say,its excellent beer. Just the right amount of bite. On a side note.....its good to be Molson! I should look into their stocks.

[EyeBrock]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Americans license their brands to Canadian brewers, so many of them are made in Canada. Lots aren't though (the most popular being Miller Genuine Draft). It doesn't have to be brewed in Ontario to be sold here, but it ends up being cheaper and more available if it is. The retail sale of beer in Ontario happens, for the most part, through the Beer Stores. These are jointly owned by Labatt and Molson and they exert a significant amount of protectionist pressure all on their own. Beer is also sold at the LCBO, but in much smaller quantities. Ontario brewers know that, since they control the means of distribution, they can tell the Americans "Hey, let us brew some of your brands and we'll split the profits. Otherwise you can continue to export it here, face the can tax, and forget about seeing your brands anywhere but at the LCBO". This pressure, combined with the tax on cans, has pretty much extored the American brewers into letting Labatt and Molson brew their brands. There are also interprovincial trade barriers. Labatt and Molson take fees from non-Ontario brands (like Keiths and Moosehead) to sell those brands at the Beer Store. It's really quite a nice cartel Molson and Labatt are running here.

It's easier to buy weed than booze in Ontario.

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Isn't that what I said initially? Do try to follow along. Loopholes exist that allow protectionism on certain grounds. But those cases where one country is purposely misusing a loophole in the law for protectionist reasons (like the Ontario beer example) are, as far as I'm aware, product-specific. This new levy isn't like those. This sounds like the Yanks have cooked up something new.

Nope, here is what you said initially:

$1:

For example, Ontario taxes beer imported in cans because, it argues, cans are less environmentally friendly than bottles, so the beer tax is allowed as an environmental justification.

I think the American argument is that foreign products aren't paying for the road upkeep to ship them in the US. But of course they are, pay the same shipping costs as US products.

[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

Nope, here is what you said initially:

$1:

For example, Ontario taxes beer imported in cans because, it argues, cans are less environmentally friendly than bottles, so the beer tax is allowed as an environmental justification.

What's the problem with that? Everything there is true. I was never talking about beer that wasn't imported so there was no reason to underline or discuss it. It's not my fault that you chose to read more into it. You're not back to trolling again, are you?

andy andy:

I think the American argument is that foreign products aren't paying for the road upkeep to ship them in the US. But of course they are, pay the same shipping costs as US products.

The American argument is "We run the world, we make the rules, we need dough, fuck everyone else".