[CommanderSock]

kenmore kenmore:

I don't think that the idea of multiculturalism asks an immigrant to assimilate into society. Rather it requires integration which is a totally different concept. In Canada we guarantee the right to religious freedom and expression. That is a concept immigrants from Muslim countries find difficult to understand. They feel they should promote and recruit people to Islam and instead of being accepting of our laws, want to change them and enforce Sharia. The article on Yahoo to-day from Germany is most accurate and we in Canada are headed down a dangerous path if we continue to allow immigration from countries whose values and religious ideation are so very diverse from ours. This is just the beginning and as more countries in Europe advocate the expulsion of these immigrants we will see civil wars in countries that never experienced them before. If Québec were independent to-day, they would advocate the same.

The case in Europe is more of xenophobia and culture, they are both intertwined.

In continental Europe, no matter how well integrated you are, you will never be considered a real citizen if you share a physical difference from the mainstream.

After 3 generations, some of these people (minorities in France, Germany, Holland) are beginning to understand why they are poorer. Why, being from Guadeloupe or Reunion, and having French citizenship, speaking French, and being Catholic still doesn't guarantee you all the rights and privileges as white French citizens of Hungarian decent (like Sarkozy).

I'm not absolving radical Islamism from the equation, but it's resurgence in 2nd, and 3rd generation immigrants can directly be linked to social conditions of these people. Remember, many of these so called radical Muslims are citizens, and are probably 3rd generation now.

I had an Afro-French (mulatto) manager when I was doing my summer internship during my university holidays. He would tell me; with his French (white) wife, and French citizen children, he was still treated as a second class citizen. Sometimes he would not be served in restaurants; waiters would refuse to talk to him. When he received his Masters degree, employers refused to approach him or talk to him at job fares. What more can a man do? He's done his part. Society rejected him so he applied for citizenship in Canada (as a French citizen), and got accepted almost immediately and he's counting his blessings. He found employment in Canada almost immediately.

There are millions of these people in Europe and they don't appreciate being branded 2nd class citizen for not choosing the colour or ethnicity of their parents right. They resent it. Many of them are moving to the USA and Canada.

Integration is a two street. Make no mistake about it.

Germans (and other European nations) have rejected their immigrants before they had a chance to integrate. And now they reap what has been sewn 2 generations ago.

[kenmore]

But, once again as in the article. Germany has allowed poorly educated people from middle eastern country to immigrate. Now they are stuck with them. Their religous values are too diverse and archaic. They will never integrate and therefor will never be accepted and in these slow economic times they will be ostracized. We have that here in Canada. Multiculturalism has given rise to ethnic pockets and segregated neighbourhoods. Little Italy, China Town, The greek district and areas for Muslim and Jews. We are being fragmented and divided by ethnic lines and why should we be. Western society is on the road to major difficuties and there will be ethnic clashes and disturbances. There are some immigrants who want to be part of society and try very hard to fit in. They are a minority. A neighbourhood close to where I live has been bought up by people from Pakistan. They bought entire streets and cul-de sacs. No one ventures into that area except them. In Montréal China Town is a prime example. In a province that has French only signage laws, China Town is able to have Chinese business signs and street signs. Most people who live in that area work and stay there. I really feel that it is the unwillingness of some immigrant groups to give a little when it comes to religious freedoms that is a major problem for them. They push and shove their religion and their values and are unbending. Oh what a tangled web we weave.

[BartSimpson]

What Merkel is also reflecting is a resurgent German sense of pride in being German. The West German liberals hated themselves for being German and their national policies reflected that self-loathing. The self-destructive immigration and family policies underline that quite nicely. But now you have East Germans (like Merkel) and young Germans who don't care to carry the banner of Holocaust guilt anymore and they want to be proud of their country and their culture...neither of which can survive an onslaught of immigrants who have no desire to become German in the classical sense.
Give it a few years, or one serious terror attack, and the Germans will frog-march the Muslims right out of Europe. And when that happens it looks like the French will happily join in.

On a more trivial note, I wrote to Chancellor Merkel to ask her to send a birthday greeting to my 80 year old father in law and she sent him a personally signed birthday card! I was duly impressed!

[CommanderSock]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What Merkel is also reflecting is a resurgent German sense of pride in being German. The West German liberals hated themselves for being German and their national policies reflected that self-loathing. The self-destructive immigration and family policies underline that quite nicely. But now you have East Germans (like Merkel) and young Germans who don't care to carry the banner of Holocaust guilt anymore and they want to be proud of their country and their culture...neither of which can survive an onslaught of immigrants who have no desire to become German in the classical sense.
Give it a few years, or one serious terror attack, and the Germans will frog-march the Muslims right out of Europe. And when that happens it looks like the French will happily join in.

On a more trivial note, I wrote to Chancellor Merkel to ask her to send a birthday greeting to my 80 year old father in law and she sent him a personally signed birthday card! I was duly impressed!

What of the millions of non muslims who are trying to integrate or have integrated? What of them? Should they be marched out too? Read my post above about my former French manager.

[GreenTiger]

Tman1 Tman1:

Multiculturalism is a poorly understood utopian concept.

It is not only unattainable, but also self-defeating for a country which tries to embrace or enforce it.

Multiculturalism literally aks the new immigrant not to assimilate in the host country. Its proponents say: keep your culture, keep your original identity, keep your language, keep everything that you were in the country you have left.

How on earth can we build a unified country (Canada comes to mind) if we have dozens of newcomer nationalities doing the above? This philosophy is the cause of ghettos, not because the host country segregates its new immigrants.

Owing zero loyalty to the adopting country and being more interested in the goings on "back home" than what happens here and now, these are recipes for an degradation of the country's own identity, unity, loyalty of its citizens and dedication to make this place the best.

Immigration demands from the newcomer to do his/her best to adjust to this country's way of life. You cannot live with 'one foot' here and the other foot "back home". Home is a place the new immigrant has chosen to leave, with whatever this implies.

By all means speak your old tongue inside your home and practice whatever religion you like. But in the public sphere, loyalty to the adoptive country and a feeling of kinship with its existing population are a must. Otherwise society will breed resentful, alien and isolated groups, who actually look out from their little bastions with hostility at the country which was kind enough to let them start a new life.

And being an immigrant by necessity expects the newcomer to start a new life; nothing less.

EXACTLY.

[GreenTiger]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What Merkel is also reflecting is a resurgent German sense of pride in being German. The West German liberals hated themselves for being German and their national policies reflected that self-loathing. The self-destructive immigration and family policies underline that quite nicely. But now you have East Germans (like Merkel) and young Germans who don't care to carry the banner of Holocaust guilt anymore and they want to be proud of their country and their culture...neither of which can survive an onslaught of immigrants who have no desire to become German in the classical sense.
Give it a few years, or one serious terror attack, and the Germans will frog-march the Muslims right out of Europe. And when that happens it looks like the French will happily join in.

On a more trivial note, I wrote to Chancellor Merkel to ask her to send a birthday greeting to my 80 year old father in law and she sent him a personally signed birthday card! I was duly impressed!

I agree. Germany has acknowledged their history have done paid their compensation and it is ti,e to move on Germany history is a lot older than the 12 years of the 30s-40's. Germany has the right to be proud of themselves. Germany has the right to defend their culture, just as we do.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

$1:

What Merkel is also reflecting is a resurgent German sense of pride in being German.

This is the root of many problems. Not just for Germany. The idea of "proud top be fill in nationality here is dull witted and jingoistic. Being proud of who you are because of a simple accident of birth is hardly something to be proud of.
This is NOT to be confused with being proud of your country.
To be honest, an immigrant that comes here and works hard and truly appreciates the opportunities Canada presents, saying "proud to be Canadian" would mean far more to me than if someone whose family has been here for generations said it.
I'm happy to be Canadian. I'm lucky to be Canadian. I'm not proud of myself for being Canadian cuz I didn't do shit to earn that pride.

[Demian_164]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Demian_164 Demian_164:

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

In a way Sandorski is right. Those who hate multiculturalism, don't hate it exclusively. They are also not fond of minorities or people other than themselves.

I don't see Nigerians or Chinese complaining about PET's decision to permit non white immigration, I don't want to sound like a tired old bag, but it is mostly (older) white folks complaining.

because those old white folks were people who were once called "canadians" without any hyphen. they grew up and helped build a society that was swept out from underneath them and they watch change every year without any say in the matter. they fear for their children and grandchildren, they have something to lose.

Bullshit!

I guess if you repeat it enough times, it becomes real history. Because all the Europeans who came here lived in harmony and sang Kumbayah. And they were all welcomed by other immigrants.


And of course, as so many Europeans believe, anyone who is not European can't help build or contribute to society, but only help to destroy it. Yup. That's how it works. Europeans build, non Europeans destroy.

/Sarcasm.

its really not that hard to see, when governments are afraid to say merry christmas, when obama holds ramadan dinners and apologizes for everything americans have ever done. you would have to be either blind or an idiot to not see our society is completely dividing along ethnic lines. true, this happened in the past with irish or italians or ukrainians or whatever. no one is denying that. but when i think of my grandmother (who is french) this idea of political correctness, of being forced to accept every culture on the face of the earth, of being hyphenated, is utterly ridiculous. there was something canadian to the culture, canadian artists and folklore were being developed. now we are told our culture isnt anything but a mixture of other cultures. there is nothing to be proud of in canada so lets eat indian food.

and about germany you are so completely wrong. germans have been bending over backwards for turkish immigrants for decades. they could not, on an institutional level be any nicer to any one group aside from the jews (post holocaust of course).

and the thing with multiculturalism is that it is also completely unnatural. it can only exist in a regime which forces it upon its people. you like to say europeans are just racist and xenophobic...well most countries are smart enough to just not have any immigration at all, like china, japan, korea etc.

[Proculation]

kenmore kenmore:

But, once again as in the article. Germany has allowed poorly educated people from middle eastern country to immigrate. Now they are stuck with them. Their religous values are too diverse and archaic. They will never integrate and therefor will never be accepted and in these slow economic times they will be ostracized. We have that here in Canada. Multiculturalism has given rise to ethnic pockets and segregated neighbourhoods. Little Italy, China Town, The greek district and areas for Muslim and Jews. We are being fragmented and divided by ethnic lines and why should we be. Western society is on the road to major difficuties and there will be ethnic clashes and disturbances. There are some immigrants who want to be part of society and try very hard to fit in. They are a minority. A neighbourhood close to where I live has been bought up by people from Pakistan. They bought entire streets and cul-de sacs. No one ventures into that area except them. In Montréal China Town is a prime example. In a province that has French only signage laws, China Town is able to have Chinese business signs and street signs. Most people who live in that area work and stay there. I really feel that it is the unwillingness of some immigrant groups to give a little when it comes to religious freedoms that is a major problem for them. They push and shove their religion and their values and are unbending. Oh what a tangled web we weave.

There's no problem to have a China Town or a Little Italy. Those persons work and are from good descent. They do not hate us and do not want to blow us up. Others (insert the religion of peace here) hate Canada and are only here for a political goal. Women do not work except in some corner stores, I've not seen too much Muslims. Imagine: the previsions of Stats Canada is that Montreal will have over 500 000 Muslims in less than 20 years. We have to wake up like Germany and stop that bad immigration before it's too late. Some Muslims are already in politics. My MP is a muslim with links with the Muslim Botherhood and the Islamist Coalition of Canada.

[CommanderSock]

$1:

and the thing with multiculturalism is that it is also completely unnatural. it can only exist in a regime which forces it upon its people. you like to say europeans are just racist and xenophobic...well most countries are smart enough to just not have any immigration at all, like china, japan, korea etc.

Europeans presented the largest movement of humans from one region of the world, to another (Europe, to the Americas, past 400 years). Immigration doesn't work? I beg to differ!

Multiculturalism will naturally occur when a certain group feels it wants to retain its identity. The Jews in Europe for the past 2000 years are a great example. Blacks in the USA another. They basically carved out their own culture within the nation and now have enough power to move whole elections in whichever direction they feel is beneficial to them.

So this "multiculturalism" is unnatural? Bullshit. It's totally natural and occurs very often throughout history.

Even within the USA and Canada there are different forms of multiculturalism that arise. We have rural culture, (white, Christian, conservative etc), and the urbanite culture (liberal leaning, multiethnic, multilingual, etc). And quite often these two cultures are at each other's throats.

I don't support multiculturalism that champions 3rd world traditions, but many comments here are simply oozing xenophobia. Too many posters are unwilling, or unable to differentiate culture and ethnicity and simply go on anti European people rants (even if implied and subtle).

[BartSimpson]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

What of the millions of non muslims who are trying to integrate or have integrated? What of them? Should they be marched out too? Read my post above about my former French manager.

Nope, and I do not believe in the least that they will be asked to leave France or Germany. Just the same as the Mexicans who assert the Reconquista are eventually going to have problems in the USA (and, to a lesser extent, Canada) there's a great number of Americans of Mexican descent who are outstanding people and will probably not even rate a second glance when the advocates of Aztlan get walked out.

Hmpf, most of our Border Patrol anymore are Americans of Mexican descent.

In Germany it's that core group of assimilated Turks who got this discussion started this year when they did all that 'uncouth' flag waving during the World Cup. I seriously doubt that anyone questions their being solidly and 100% German.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE54H00V20090518

[BartSimpson]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

$1:

What Merkel is also reflecting is a resurgent German sense of pride in being German.

This is the root of many problems. Not just for Germany. The idea of "proud top be fill in nationality here is dull witted and jingoistic.

I respectfully disagree. Being proud of being a (insert name here) is part and parcel of being a good (insert name here). It's the key to creating a sense of community that brings people together in times of crisis and it brings people together to resolve community challenges.

I know immigrants from other countries who are 'proud to be an American' and they were not even born here.

Some of the best Americans ever were not born here.

My friend George D'jan is a tribal king from Ghana and is probably one of the most outstanding Americans I know.

[kenmore]

Quote "There's no problem to have a China Town or a Little Italy. Those persons work and are from good descent. They do not hate us and do not want to blow us up. Others (insert the religion of peace here) hate Canada and are only here for a political goal. Women do not work except in some corner stores, I've not seen too much Muslims. Imagine: the previsions of Stats Canada is that Montreal will have over 500 000 Muslims in less than 20 years. We have to wake up like Germany and stop that bad immigration before it's too late. Some Muslims are already in politics. My MP is a muslim with links with the Muslim Botherhood and the Islamist Coalition of Canada."




I agree with everything you said and I have been very vocal about stopping immigration from Muslim countries. The problem lies with those who don't see the threat. We are being brainwashed into thinking that " its alright" .. fact is it is not!

[2Cdo]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I respectfully disagree. Being proud of being a (insert name here) is part and parcel of being a good (insert name here). It's the key to creating a sense of community that brings people together in times of crisis and it brings people together to resolve community challenges.

C'mon Bart, you know we can't have people rallying together for the common good.

[kenmore]

A Christian Nation cannot put up a Christmas scene of the baby Jesus in a public place, but the Muslims can stop normal traffic every Friday
afternoon by worshipping in the streets...

Something is happening in America that is reminiscent of what is happening in Europe. And its happening right here in Canada.
Is there a message here????

Yes, there is, and it is that the Muslims are claiming America .

And if we don't wake up soon, we are going to "politically correct"

ourselves right out of our own country!