[andyt]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

martin14 martin14:

:lol:



And I'll agree with Hurley, people born abroad should do some time
in Canada before getting citizenship.


If for example, I wanted my Dutch citizenship or nationality back, they require
I take up Dutch residence for a minimum of 3 years before.

Not too much to ask.

I never said that. I said this guy spent 30 years in Canada, demonstrating a commitment to Canada, even though several posters in this thread are claiming he has made none.

But the issue isn't about him - he has his citizenship. It's about his child and not granting him automatic citizenship. That's all. If this guy wants to move back to Canada to get his son citizenship, there nothing stopping him. But to expect his son, and his grandkids, to have automatic Canadian citizenship, even if they were all born in Peru and have no connection here is a bit much.

[EyeBrock]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I don't think it's too much to ask that if you have children born overseas to Canadians (other than CF, diplomats etc) that you apply for citizenship for those foreign born children. It should be a rubber stamp job.

There should just be the two ways to get citizenship.

Born in Canada.

or

Apply to be a citizen after living in Canada for 3 years like all the other foreign born people.

No. No double-standards based on parents' occupation. That just proves that there's a problem with the policy and trying to skirt the most glaring of faults.

CF and diplomats are working on behalf of Canada and this has always been an 'exception'.

This is pretty much what every other civilised country does hurley, it's definitely a 'best practice'.

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water and all that.

[Robair]

Stamp your feet and yell "not fair" all you want EB, but immigration laws aren't about fair, they are about what's best for Canada. We don't have to be fair to potential immigrants, they aren't Canadian yet.

You are saying first generation ex-pats should not be able to get their kids citizenship without moving back because it's not fair. We are saying those kids should get citizenship because it's in Canada's best intrest to get them back.

Think about it, why would most of those ex-pats move away in the first place? Has to be chasing an opportunity that wasn't at home. There's really no other reason to move out of Canada. So we can assume their kids are going to be fairly well educated. They are likely going to understand the language and the culture. Bring them back.

Now the law at the start of this thread addresses children of ex-pats that are not first generation. And I agree with that. It should weed out the citizens of convenience.

As far as only applying what you're saying to certain countries, we only have dual citizenship aggreaments with certain countries as it is. So I guess it would go along those lines. Maybe only members of the G8 or something.

[EyeBrock]

Robair Robair:

Stamp your feet and yell "not fair" all you want EB, but immigration laws aren't about fair, they are about what's best for Canada. We don't have to be fair to potential immigrants, they aren't Canadian yet.

You are saying first generation ex-pats should not be able to get their kids citizenship without moving back because it's not fair. We are saying those kids should get citizenship because it's in Canada's best intrest to get them back.

Think about it, why would most of those ex-pats move away in the first place? Has to be chasing an opportunity that wasn't at home. There's really no other reason to move out of Canada. So we can assume their kids are going to be fairly well educated. They are likely going to understand the language and the culture. Bring them back.

Now the law at the start of this thread addresses children of ex-pats that are not first generation. And I agree with that. It should weed out the citizens of convenience.

As far as only applying what you're saying to certain countries, we only have dual citizenship aggreaments with certain countries as it is. So I guess it would go along those lines. Maybe only members of the G8 or something.

Well, it looks like the government is going with us feet stampers who want fairness Rob.

[Robair]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Well, it looks like the government is going with us feet stampers who want fairness Rob.

Ummm no. This change only affects those who aren't first generation Canucks, so it's totally not fair. If I move out of country I can still get my kids Canadian citizenship. If YOU move out of Canada and have kids, you can't. You're getting "not fair(ed)" again. Unless I'm missing something.

[stratos]

$1:

You are saying first generation ex-pats should not be able to get their kids citizenship without moving back because it's not fair.

The chose to move to another country and have the child there. If they wanted the Child to be Canadian why not come back and have the baby in Canada?

$1:

Think about it, why would most of those ex-pats move away in the first place? Has to be chasing an opportunity that wasn't at home.

In that case why demand that his kid be Canadaian if no opportuity for him in Canada what makes you think there will be one for his child?

$1:

So we can assume their kids are going to be fairly well educated.

A Canadian educations not good enough?

$1:

They are likely going to understand the language and the culture.

Who's culture the country they are raised in or Canada because they have citizenship but don't come to it till they are already educated in aonther country?

[Robair]

*palmslap*



I've got work to do.
Later gators.

[andyt]

when we mostly had European immigrants here, they seemed to want to stay here and become Canadian. They didn't run back to Europe. The Asian immigrants seem to see us more as a country of convenience and safety, but the ones that move back to Asia at least, don't really seem that interested in becoming Canadian in a cultural sense.

[andyt]

Robair Robair:

*palmslap*

Is this another term for wanking? They seem to come up with new ones every day.

[EyeBrock]

Robair Robair:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Well, it looks like the government is going with us feet stampers who want fairness Rob.

Ummm no. This change only affects those who aren't first generation Canucks, so it's totally not fair. If I move out of country I can still get my kids Canadian citizenship. If YOU move out of Canada and have kids, you can't. You're getting "not fair(ed)" again. Unless I'm missing something.

I agree. It shouldn't just be naturalised citizens who can't pass on citizenship to their foreign born children, it should apply all Canadian citizens who have foreign born children.

Good old Olivia Chow is all for it too.

[hurley_108]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

CF and diplomats are working on behalf of Canada and this has always been an 'exception'.

This is pretty much what every other civilised country does hurley, it's definitely a 'best practice'.

What makes everyone else LESS deserving of being able to pass on their citizenship than CF, diplomats, etc? Just let there be one standard for everyone, even if that means elevating everyone else's status.

$1:

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water and all that.

No, see, that's exactly what HAS happened. We HAVE thrown the baby, this guy's baby to be precise, out with the bathwater of the "plastic Canadians" who wanted out of Lebanon.

[hurley_108]

andyt andyt:

But the issue isn't about him - he has his citizenship. It's about his child and not granting him automatic citizenship. That's all. If this guy wants to move back to Canada to get his son citizenship, there nothing stopping him. But to expect his son, and his grandkids, to have automatic Canadian citizenship, even if they were all born in Peru and have no connection here is a bit much.

Read the article again. It IS about his citizenship. He was born outside of Canada, was moved to Canada when he was 5 months, moved out of Canada when he was over 30, and had a son outside of Canada again. He doesn't have the same level of Canadian citizenship as a child born in Canada, despite teh fact he spent more than 30 years here. That means his citizenship is less than mine for some reason, and for some reason wasn't elevated by his 30 years here. That affects his ability to pass on Canadian citizenship to his second son.

[Robair]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It shouldn't just be naturalised citizens who can't pass on citizenship to their foreign born children, it should apply all Canadian citizens who have foreign born children.

Because... it's not fair?

I guess democracy can look that way when you're not in the majority.

You are going to have to convince 1st generation Canadians (the vast majority) to give up their ability to make brand new little Canadians while on vacation, working, traveling or living abroad.

Good luck. Generally speaking, nobody likes giving up their right to do anything.

Note: This was "fair" until the recent change to exclude naturalized citizens. I'm betting that's why the change was made quietly. I'm okay with it. Cuts down on citizens of convenience while not discouraging the return of ex-pats and their youngsters. Win win for Canada, but unfair from where you stand as a naturalized citizen, of course.