[ASLplease]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

ASLplease ASLplease:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

See, the homicide/murder rate minor percentage by registered long guns belies the proactive police-work and enforcement that has happened since the registry was enacted.

See now there's another assertion that I'd like you to provide a citation for. There are stats for the number of longguns used in homicide prior to the registry, can you show me stats that even remotely support your claim?

A citation? Check FOI in your local area. I'm awfully sorry for disagreeing with you.

it was your assertion not mine, I dont tell you to do my homework, so dont expect me to do yours.

[EyeBrock]

Ah, the "what if" question(s)". What if my left knacker fell off because of excessive bouncing?

Information is useful. Going to a domestic call knowing that the address is that of a registered gun owner is good to know.

So what if it doesn’t capture illegal ownership, its way better than not knowing who has registered firearms. Some info is better than no info.

How can you say that is a bad thing? I don't get your point.


This shouldn’t be a Tory vs. Lib issue. The Tories are wrong and it's politics over safety.

[ASLplease]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Ah, the "what if" question(s)". What if my left knacker fell off because of excessive bouncing?

nce you bone up and provide a citation for your outlandish claims, I'll be more than happy to provide a citation shows how common a legal the borrowing of firearms can be for sportsmen.

$1:

Information is useful. Going to a domestic call knowing that the address is that of a registered gun owner is good to know.

true, it tell you that he is part of a law abiding group that bothered to take a federal firearms safety course, and then apply for a license which means he has passed a background check by a fellow police officer.

$1:

So what if it doesn’t capture illegal ownership, its way better than not knowing who has registered firearms. Some info is better than no info.

it doesn't even capture the legal ownership for the kind of accuracy that you need it for.

$1:

How can you say that is a bad thing? I don't get your point.

I didn't say it was a bad thing, i said it was useless and inaccurate.

$1:

This shouldn’t be a Tory vs. Lib issue.

I agree, because there is nothing liberal about the concept of focussing on law abiding citizens instead of focusing on criminals. That is truly a Liberal concept.

[ASLplease]

btw, you do understand that the gun registry and gun license are not one and the same? that even without a gun registry you could tell if there was a licensed gunowner on the premises?

[EyeBrock]

ASLplease ASLplease:

btw, you do understand that the gun registry and gun license are not one and the same? that even without a gun registry you could tell if there was a licensed gunowner on the premises?

No, do explain.

You obviously know way more about the info police get going to a call than I do.

[Thanos]

a) Doesn't the licensing information that is gathered about a firearm and it's legal owner occur at the point of purchase? If so, doesn't a further redundant registry merely duplicate the information that's already been collected? If this is the case then the registry wasn't just stupid for the punishments it inflicted on honest and non-dangerous owners, it was also just another example of big government mindlessly propigating itself without any due justification or validity.

b) I don't have any stats on anything, but I imagine at domestic disputes that erupt into lethal violence, the murder(s) and/or suicide has already occurred long before the police ever arrive on the scene. In such tragic instances, having registry information available on-hand to the officers is almost pointless, in the classic closing-the-barn-door-after-the-horse-is-long-gone mode. A good cop goes into any violent situation already prepared to inflict lethal harm himself on a perpetrator if it is going to be necessary. I can't see any of them lazily half-assing it just because the computer tells them there aren't any registered firearms on the scene.

c) Does anyone know how many police are either killed or injured per year at domestic dispute crime scenes? I really can't see it being very many, if any at all. From my POV, the most dangerous situations for police have to be traffic pull-overs, drug busts, and undercover work. Seeing as how the criminals in these instances are far more likely to be armed with illegal handguns, I really don't see how a registry that tallies shotguns and hunting rifles is of any use as all.

[ASLplease]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

ASLplease ASLplease:

btw, you do understand that the gun registry and gun license are not one and the same? that even without a gun registry you could tell if there was a licensed gunowner on the premises?

No, do explain

You obviously know way more about the info police get going to a call than I do.

you are kidding right?

what part do you not understand? the part about the applying for a license is a separate process that happens before a longgun purchasd ( still entitles the person to borrow and possess)?

or the fact that a longgun is registered to its owner and not tracked in real time?

[hurley_108]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

See, the homicide/murder rate minor percentage by registered long guns belies the proactive police-work and enforcement that has happened since the registry was enacted.

Sure, legislatively, there were definite breaches of established gun-ownership privileges.

Some of the sentences given by the courts to Joe Bloggs gun owner for failing to register or not having an FAC were more severe than the judgements against convicted Toronto gang-bangers.

Very silly and Dr Calebs story is a common illustration of the ills of the registry.

That aside, the money has been spent.

I can tell you when a domestic call goes in on 911 and the chaps and chappesses in blue know there are registered firearms in the house, it’s a really good bit of info to get.
Most domestics are between people without criminal records.

Law abiding citizens that could lawfully own firearms.

Occurrences that end in arrest also incorporate weapons seizures if they are present.
Once everything is sorted the gun owner gets their weapons back, if they are not convicted of a criminal offence involving violence.

Its a power that Parliament granted the cops to stem the rising tide of domestic violence.

Something like this common set of circumstances would not be captured in the homicide rate. As in the chick was saved.

That's what I figure. Sure, you have to go in with the assumption that there may be an unregistered/illegal firearm, but confirmation can never hurt.

Apparently you weren't one of those officers surveyed who think the registry should be scrapped?

[EyeBrock]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

See, the homicide/murder rate minor percentage by registered long guns belies the proactive police-work and enforcement that has happened since the registry was enacted.

Sure, legislatively, there were definite breaches of established gun-ownership privileges.

Some of the sentences given by the courts to Joe Bloggs gun owner for failing to register or not having an FAC were more severe than the judgements against convicted Toronto gang-bangers.

Very silly and Dr Calebs story is a common illustration of the ills of the registry.

That aside, the money has been spent.

I can tell you when a domestic call goes in on 911 and the chaps and chappesses in blue know there are registered firearms in the house, it’s a really good bit of info to get.
Most domestics are between people without criminal records.

Law abiding citizens that could lawfully own firearms.

Occurrences that end in arrest also incorporate weapons seizures if they are present.
Once everything is sorted the gun owner gets their weapons back, if they are not convicted of a criminal offence involving violence.

Its a power that Parliament granted the cops to stem the rising tide of domestic violence.

Something like this common set of circumstances would not be captured in the homicide rate. As in the chick was saved.

That's what I figure. Sure, you have to go in with the assumption that there may be an unregistered/illegal firearm, but confirmation can never hurt.

Apparently you weren't one of those officers surveyed who think the registry should be scrapped?

Well the Chiefs and most Police Associations are for keeping it. I'm sure they can find somebody against it but at the end of the day it's information on guns. No operational officer would say that not knowing that there are registered firearms in a house is a good thing.

It's just a political play thing now. It's good points will be dismissed by the Tories and it's bad points will be ignored by the Libs and NDP.

[ASLplease]

we ought to discuss the differences between a real time inventory tracking system and a database of purchases. you are talking like you know where the registered guns are when in fact its only a 'maybe' and you list is incomplete. and further more, if you want to defend having a ''maybe' list, then the list of licensed persons is more than adaquate and a darned lot more acurate

[hurley_108]

ASLplease ASLplease:

we ought to discuss the differences between a real time inventory tracking system and a database of purchases. you are talking like you know where the registered guns are when in fact its only a 'maybe' and you list is incomplete. and further more, if you want to defend having a ''maybe' list, then the list of licensed persons is more than adaquate and a darned lot more acurate

Sounds like you want the unattainable or nothing at all.

[ASLplease]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

ASLplease ASLplease:

we ought to discuss the differences between a real time inventory tracking system and a database of purchases. you are talking like you know where the registered guns are when in fact its only a 'maybe' and you list is incomplete. and further more, if you want to defend having a ''maybe' list, then the list of licensed persons is more than adaquate and a darned lot more acurate

Sounds like you want the unattainable or nothing at all.

you can hear what you like, but i dont think i've made an unreasonable post here.

[hurley_108]

ASLplease ASLplease:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

ASLplease ASLplease:

we ought to discuss the differences between a real time inventory tracking system and a database of purchases. you are talking like you know where the registered guns are when in fact its only a 'maybe' and you list is incomplete. and further more, if you want to defend having a ''maybe' list, then the list of licensed persons is more than adaquate and a darned lot more acurate

Sounds like you want the unattainable or nothing at all.

you can hear what you like, but i dont think i've made an unreasonable post here.

I hear you saying that the registry as it is is incomplete, and therefore useless and should be tossed. But even if it was complete, it wouldn't be able to say where exactly a gun is right now, so useless and should be tossed. The only thing you would want as an effective tool would be a complete registry that has the real-time location of every gun registered. How the heck can you do that? Put a GPS on every gun?

[EyeBrock]

It can never be complete. But half a record of guns is better than no record of guns.

The money has been spent, the horse has bolted and all that. A more constructive way for Harper to deal with it is fix it.

That won't happen because the registry has become an icon of Liberal boondoggles to the Tories.

Ideology has trumped public safety.

[ASLplease]

thanks. im also saying that when someone make a claim that they know where the guns are, that we ought to be very clear what that means.

personally, i dont want a real time tracking system on legit gun because I think this whole premise of focussing on law abiding people is flawed. especially in a country like canada where we have millions of guns, uses, and owners, and a small rate of only 140 homicides per year.

there is no correlation between the lawful access of gun and the crininal use of guns. even in the usa where the stats are much worse, a study was published that showed no correlation. I'll post the graph tonight.