[DerbyX]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DerbyX DerbyX:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Interesting. These two pictures that are supposedly forming the same data set (for June) don't match.

I doubt you are qualified to make that statement.

Sure I am. The two pictures don't match. Look at the Nares Strait on one and then the other. Are they the same? No.

They aren't strict overlays. Regardless, you can clearly see one is the NASA photo you had trouble finding. In addition, the site provides the methodology behind its data collection and you'll find that this is exactly the technology used by your military to determine weather conditions. Hell it was probably developed for them in the first place. Knowing where the ice is thin enough for a soviet sub to break through and launch an ICBM was probably the driving factor.

[ASLplease]

Thanks for your last post, I truly believe you are trying to answer me but it serves to highlight my point...."decades" dont get hotter. A decade has no mass, and no substance, its just a unit of time.

Who are these experts? were any of them involved in the climategate scandals? how many more climate gate scadals have yet to be uncovered?

I dont trust reviews from experts, I trust full disclosure of data. But, I've recently heard of a case where a university based 'expert' told his opposition "I've got 25 years invested in this data, so no you can NOT see it"

[DerbyX]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DerbyX DerbyX:

You don't want to believe it and don't understand the fundamental principles involved so you deny it.

For AGW to be 'science' the original data sets need to be made publicly available so sceptical computer geeks can embarrass NASA and James Hansen by proving how their 'adjustments' are BS...which happened once so now none of the AGW crowd releases raw data so other people can replicate their results.

Your understanding of science is extremely flawed. It doesn't need to be right to be science. That alone shows you don't understand too well. A failed experiment generates valuable data also (like Dieppe taught us so that Normandy was a success). The science stems from the observation-theory-evidence part. The scientific method which I already explained. The science behind increased temp due to CO2 is irrefutable. Its basic physics.

Arguing that the data is flawed doesn't prove your case that the theory is wrong. Again, I'll post an evolution example. Creationists always argue from the position that if they disprove evolution then therefore they have proven creationism.

False dilemma fallacy

Flawed data collection does not invalidate the theory nor does it invalidate the fact of its conclusion. Scientists have come to the right conclusion for the wrong reasons before.

You need to prove your theory that the earth isn't getting hotter just as much as they need to prove it is and so far you have no data to support your theory and are relying entirely on attacking theirs.

[DerbyX]

ASLplease ASLplease:

Thanks for your last post, I truly believe you are trying to answer me but it serves to highlight my point...."decades" dont get hotter. A decade has no mass, and no substance, its just a unit of time.

Substitute "decade" with "day". Was yesterday hotter then today? Were there times when it was hotter yesterday then it was today even though today it was hotter for much longer periods? Does that help?

ASLplease ASLplease:

Who are these experts? were any of them involved in the climategate scandals? how many more climate gate scadals have yet to be uncovered?

Ad hominem attack in advance. You are suggesting their data be ignored because "they might be involved in a scandal later"? Can I put you in jail because you might commit a crime later in life?

I posted the evidence showing that the so called climate gate scandal was busted a while back. Its still in the news links but I'm sure you can find it if you look on the web.

ASLplease ASLplease:

I dont trust reviews from experts, I trust full disclosure of data. But, I've recently heard of a case where a university based 'expert' told his opposition "I've got 25 years invested in this data, so no you can NOT see it"

Aside from the fact that science journals and institutions as a rule demand you submit data along with any scientific claim or theory they have published the data. You know this because now they say they "cherry picked" the data to show what they wanted or omitted data.

[ASLplease]

good points which I support 100%, but my preference is to not to get involved in blind faith and get back to the business of good science. Good science comes from good data, and its shared and challenged by good people. Qualifications and Titles are worthless in Science, if they are used to supersede or mask over good science.If this had happened,we wouldn't have had a climategate in the first place.

[DerbyX]

ASLplease ASLplease:

good points which I support 100%, but my preference is to not to get involved in blind faith and get back to the business of good science. Good science comes from good data, and its shared and challenged by good people. Qualifications and Titles are worthless in Science, if they are used to supersede or mask over good science.If this had happened,we wouldn't have had a climategate in the first place.

No. Climategate happened because of a few guys who said stuff in emails that layman don't understand. It shook the public because the public aren't experts and it was fueled almost entirely by the same type of politicizing that climate change skeptics hate about AGW.

The science behind climate change was solid long before the politicizing. Observation-theory-evidence.

[sandorski]

My L33t Photoshopping skills!!!

[desertdude]

Is it just me or am I too old, can't be too old. I clearly remember that growing all I ever heard was that the next ice age was comming ! From almost daily TV reports to documentries and specials telling me so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ndHwW8p ... re=related

Whats next ? A quirk in all our computer systems which all of a sudden will make them crash all the same time bringing an end to modern civilisation as we know it and taking all of us back into the dark ages unless you spent millions reprogramming them.

Oh wait thats already been done...............millennium bug anyone ? Maybe imminent death by a new virus....WHAT ! SARS has also been done.

Now wondering what's next waiting round the corner for us.

[Public_Domain]

[Bodah]

I love this heat. It's been a great summer so far.

For the sky is falling crowd you can go back to calling it global warming now and not climate change.

[sandorski]

desertdude desertdude:

Is it just me or am I too old, can't be too old. I clearly remember that growing all I ever heard was that the next ice age was comming ! From almost daily TV reports to documentries and specials telling me so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ndHwW8p ... re=related

Whats next ? A quirk in all our computer systems which all of a sudden will make them crash all the same time bringing an end to modern civilisation as we know it and taking all of us back into the dark ages unless you spent millions reprogramming them.

Oh wait thats already been done...............millennium bug anyone ? Maybe imminent death by a new virus....WHAT ! SARS has also been done.

Now wondering what's next waiting round the corner for us.

An Ice Age is inevitable.

[desertdude]

Currently everyone is singing the global warming song.

[2Cdo]

Bodah Bodah:

I love this heat. It's been a great summer so far.

For the sky is falling crowd you can go back to calling it global warming now and not climate change.

Suzuki and company will be warning us of the coming ice age sometime this fall as temps start to fall.

[sandorski]

desertdude desertdude:

Currently everyone is singing the global warming song.

Yes, because it is happening Now. Regardless, an Ice Age is inevitable, so is an asteroid collision, so is the expansion of the Sun enveloping the Earth, so is the Nova of the Sun...

[desertdude]

15 to 20 years back the Ice Age was happening "now"