[andyt]

commanderkai commanderkai:

See, once again the "Please Think of the Children" bullshit comes up with you. So, if Khadr was 19 when he was captured, you'd be more than happy with pulling his toenails and using a blowtorch against his eyeball? Probably not, but as a just society, we're more than happy to wait until he's 18 to torture him half to death, right?

Say what?

As for the no law exists argument - cannibalism isn't illegal in many places either. We're still revulsed by it. Countries that claim to uphold basic human rights should uphold them even in the absence of law. Otherwise, what's the point?

[commanderkai]

andyt andyt:

Say what?

As for the no law exists argument - cannibalism isn't illegal in many places either. We're still revulsed by it.

Considering there are other laws that apply to cannibalism (you can't murder or assault another human being, as two examples), there really is no need for a law against cannibalism. However, you can't say cannibalism is illegal when it's not. Immoral, unethical, sure! But you can say the same thing about other practices as well. Ethics and morality is important to an individual, but attempting to argue ethics and morality with government is silly.

Here's an example. Many, if not a majority of Americans view abortion as immoral and unethical. Does that mean abortion should be illegal in the United States?

$1:

Countries that claim to uphold basic human rights should uphold them even in the absence of law. Otherwise, what's the point?

Governments claim and should do many things. Until the American Supreme Court actually tells the government that it's actions are illegal, said actions will probably continue.

[HyperionTheEvil]

Canadiana55 Canadiana55:

"This is the time to bring Omar Khadr home,"
Seriously, this guy and his pinko lefty lawyers can all go fuck themselves!
What a waste of skin and taxpayers money. I don't give a shit what our Charter says about his so called rights....this douchebag deserves to die.

Thank you for you insightful input, we'll just put you in the "No" column .

[HyperionTheEvil]

Bodah Bodah:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Oh look the right-wing reactionaries having a shit hemorrhage. Quel surprise.

Good for the court standing up for the rights of Canadian citizens. The anti-liberty right seems to want to take all our freedoms and throw them out the fucking window because they are scared of a bunch of Afghani goat-fuckers. I'm not about to grant the US government the universal right to torture kids arbitrarily because Conservatives are all a bunch of frightened little kittens.

Fucking grow a pair, you wusses.

I have no problem with a canadian losing their "liberty" and even their rights if they go to a WARZONE to kill Americans. You have no proof he's being tortured just like I have no proof he isn't. He's in jail getting three squares a day with a bed and a roof over his head, boo-fucking hoo.

The Americans caught him let the Americans deal with him, it's a good thing he wasn't considered a real canadian by the taliban when they were over there because he would of been in an orange jumpsuit and on the internet a long time ago. But yeah hypothetical torture by the Americans is just as bad.

I'm not to crazy about bringing him back here when we all know he'll be walking the streets in no time and like every other dumb ass canadian that gets in trouble overseas ends up sueing our government for more money than most of us will ever see in a lifetime. But then that's probably the right thing to do huh ? Idiot.

As for "proof" if your looking to the American military system for justice then perhaps you've been out of the loop for a few years. Americans tortured and killed innocent people in Abu Ghraib, and yet somehow those americans mysteriously managed to hang on to their 'Liberties' and 'rights'

Hypocrisy thy name is Bodah.

[GreenTiger]

Tossing a grenade at a medic? who would want to defend this guy? If you do don't argue he is a harmless little boy.

I'm all in favor of the US government acceding to the requests of the Canadian Government. That's what friends are for and there are some folk in Quantanimo who shouldn't be there.

This guy is there is there for good reason but if you want him back I see no reason why not.

[Zipperfish]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Interesting. Only you can make assumptions about Khadr and not others? I was discussing hypothetical views on how people can see Khadr, ranging from a traitor, to a P.O.W., to my held belief that he's in legal limbo.

No I don't believe that I stated anywhere "Only Zipperfish can make assumptions about Khadr." I don't think it's established that he killed the American soldier, so I reflected that any charges against him are alleged. To use your words "Pretty simple really."

One of Khadr's interrogators, Sgt. Joshua Claus, was later arrested for the torture death of an Afghan detainee who died hanging from a hook in the ceiling in an American detention centre from "blunt force injuries to his lower extremities." You'll be happy to know that law and order prevailed and Claus got five months in jail.

I await your indignation at this injustice. I imagine I'll be waiting a while.

$1:

Because war isn't a criminal case. Pretty simple really. If Khadr was captured in Canada attempting to wage war against Canada, it'd be a pretty clear cut case that he's a traitor to Canada and would be prosecuted for such. But, being arrested by police forces gives the criminal justice system the benefit of police forces trained to catalog and process evidence. Military forces lack said investigative abilities and tools normally, due to the ever changing battlefield.

If war isn't a criminal case than why are you alleging treason, a criminal act? "Pretty simple really." Boy you keep lobbing the softies and I keep batting them out of the park.

If Khadr were put in a POW camp, or if he were tried either by a Candian court or a court bound by the principles of fundamental justice, I wouldnt have a problem with it. I do have a problem with the torture of children, and I have even more of a problem with granting the security apparatus of a government the power to detain indefinitely and torture children arbitrarily.

$1:

You can argue whatever you like. Here's the thing, your argument is no more or less valid than any other argument in dealing with individuals like Khadr. Once again, absolutely no written law exists that currently deals with the unique position of non-uniformed combatants. Until said law exists, the reality is that the Americans can do what they please.

This is a peculiar argument coming from an avowed right-winger, since it is the right that generally believes that humans are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights" to quote the Declaration of Independence. If you hold this, then your belief that "no written law exists" would be immaterial and any written law would anyway be subsidiary to the "Creator-endowed" rights.

From my point of view, I believe there is written law against the torture of children, both nationally in Canada and the US and internationally (both Canada and the US are signatory to the United Nations Convention Against Torture). Of course law is meaningless unless enforced, so from that point of view you are correct--I can argue whatever I like and it won't change much.

$1:

And they had a policy. Send them to Gitmo, and use whatever tools at their disposal to get whatever intelligence they can. You just don't like said policy. Which is fine, except your likes and dislikes aren't law.

The policy--specifcialyl the part about torturing children--is a flagrant violation of US domestic and international law, so it is not just my "dislike." A policy must comply with the law. I mean this is Policy 101. This is basic stuff. Must you so lpudly pronounce your complete and utter ignorance on the subject?

$1:

See, once again the "Please Think of the Children" bullshit comes up with you. So, if Khadr was 19 when he was captured, you'd be more than happy with pulling his toenails and using a blowtorch against his eyeball? Probably not, but as a just society, we're more than happy to wait until he's 18 to torture him half to death, right?

Hey maybe you like the torture of kids, I don't know. Hopefully you don't have any.

[Proculation]

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

Tossing a grenade at a medic? who would want to defend this guy? If you do don't argue he is a harmless little boy.

I'm all in favor of the US government acceding to the requests of the Canadian Government. That's what friends are for and there are some folk in Quantanimo who shouldn't be there.

This guy is there is there for good reason but if you want him back I see no reason why not.

The US wants from a long time to shove Kahdr to us. It's our government who doesn't want him. We want the US to try him since here our laws are too soft.

[GreenTiger]

Proculation Proculation:

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

Tossing a grenade at a medic? who would want to defend this guy? If you do don't argue he is a harmless little boy.

I'm all in favor of the US government acceding to the requests of the Canadian Government. That's what friends are for and there are some folk in Quantanimo who shouldn't be there.

This guy is there is there for good reason but if you want him back I see no reason why not.

The US wants from a long time to shove Kahdr to us. It's our government who doesn't want him. We want the US to try him since here our laws are too soft.

Okay, then he is where he belongs.

[Freakinoldguy]

Here's the thing.

If the American Goverment is so keen on sending Omar back, it begs the question.

Why did they want a Canadian citizen extradited to the US to serve time for something as banal as selling marijuana seeds to morons through the mail?

I don't know alot about the American judicial system but i'd take a wild guess that that murder is a little more serious than selling pot seeds, yet Emery's in jail and the US wants to send a terrorist who killed an American back to Canada.

In this case the American Government can fuck off because, you can't have it both ways.

[RUEZ]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Here's the thing.

If the American Goverment is so keen on sending Omar back, it begs the question.

Why did they want a Canadian citizen extradited to the US to serve time for something as banal as selling marijuana seeds to morons through the mail?

I don't know alot about the American judicial system but i'd take a wild guess that that murder is a little more serious than selling pot seeds, yet Emery's in jail and the US wants to send a terrorist who killed an American back to Canada.

In this case the American Government can fuck off because, you can't have it both ways.

[Thanos]

Well, the little idiot just fired all his lawyers, so the whole freakshow just got dragged out even more than it's already been.

[herbie]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Here's the thing.

If the American Goverment is so keen on sending Omar back, it begs the question.

Why did they want a Canadian citizen extradited to the US to serve time for something as banal as selling marijuana seeds to morons through the mail?

I don't know alot about the American judicial system but i'd take a wild guess that that murder is a little more serious than selling pot seeds, yet Emery's in jail and the US wants to send a terrorist who killed an American back to Canada.

In this case the American Government can fuck off because, you can't have it both ways.

They want to send him back because they're fucked whatever they do. You can't just make up a 'court' and try people in it just because your American. You can't just let him go or Americans will be pissed. He did it in Afghanistan. Send him there and make it their problem.
What gets me is every single person screaming he shouldn't have any consideration for being only 15 at the time would be up on a soapbox screaming he was coerced, influenced and incapable of responsible judgement at that age if he'd fucked a Marine instead of killed one.
Nah, ya can't have it both ways.

[Bacardi4206]

For the love of god, don't put him under Canadian justice. You are just going to get a bunch of bleedy heart terrorist supporters that manage to get him a nice house, paid for food, clothes, etc all by tax payers. That will be his "punishment".

[EyeBrock]

andyt andyt:

commanderkai commanderkai:

See, once again the "Please Think of the Children" bullshit comes up with you. So, if Khadr was 19 when he was captured, you'd be more than happy with pulling his toenails and using a blowtorch against his eyeball? Probably not, but as a just society, we're more than happy to wait until he's 18 to torture him half to death, right?

Say what?

As for the no law exists argument - cannibalism isn't illegal in many places either. We're still revulsed by it. Countries that claim to uphold basic human rights should uphold them even in the absence of law. Otherwise, what's the point?

Dead Body

182. Every one who
(a) neglects, without lawful excuse, to perform any duty that is imposed on him by law or that he undertakes with reference to the burial of a dead human body or human remains, or

(b) improperly or indecently interferes with or offers any indignity to a dead human body or human remains, whether buried or not,
is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.
R.S., c. C-34, s. 178.

[ShepherdsDog]

andyt andyt:

commanderkai commanderkai:

See, once again the "Please Think of the Children" bullshit comes up with you. So, if Khadr was 19 when he was captured, you'd be more than happy with pulling his toenails and using a blowtorch against his eyeball? Probably not, but as a just society, we're more than happy to wait until he's 18 to torture him half to death, right?

Say what?

As for the no law exists argument - cannibalism isn't illegal in many places either. We're still revulsed by it. Countries that claim to uphold basic human rights should uphold them even in the absence of law. Otherwise, what's the point?

if you believe the Catholics, every time you partake in communion, you are practising cannibalism.