[Proculation]

Controlled rent... it's like a basic situation in economics that is not productive.

[Lemmy]

Proculation Proculation:

Controlled rent... it's like a basic situation in economics that is not productive.

For MANY reasons, but all of them come down to profit motive. When you limit a landlord to charge a price he knows is below the market price, his rational response is to let the building fall to pieces. Controlled rent is never productive, but it doesn't typically create slums if the facilities are government-run.

[Proculation]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Proculation Proculation:

Controlled rent... it's like a basic situation in economics that is not productive.

For MANY reasons, but all of them come down to profit motive. When you limit a landlord to charge a price he knows is below the market price, his rational response is to let the building fall to pieces. Controlled rent is never productive, but it doesn't typically create slums if the facilities are government-run.

I'm not saying it will create slums. I'm saying it's not productive.
There are a lot of better ways to help them.

Millions of dollars for those 'rent'. Government run. That's not the way to go.

[Lemmy]

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I'm not saying it will create slums. I'm saying it's not productive.
There are a lot of better ways to help them.

Millions of dollars for those 'rent'. Government run. That's not the way to go.

Agreed, 100%. I've already said that, if you conclude that welfare spending is a justifiable governmente expenditure, then it makes ABSOLUTE economic sense to just give them cash.

[Proculation]

Lemmy Lemmy:

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I'm not saying it will create slums. I'm saying it's not productive.
There are a lot of better ways to help them.

Millions of dollars for those 'rent'. Government run. That's not the way to go.

Agreed, 100%. I've already said that, if you conclude that welfare spending is a justifiable governmente expenditure, then it makes ABSOLUTE economic sense to just give them cash.

But, like it was said, they can't control their cash. They are unable to make a budget.

What we need to do, is give that cash to a 'tutor' to help them. Like in rehab. You follow them. You can't leave them at their own on the first 6 months.

[Lemmy]

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But, like it was said, they can't control their cash. They are unable to make a budget.

What we need to do, is give that cash to a 'tutor' to help them. Like in rehab. You follow them. You can't leave them at their own on the first 6 months.

I understand that sentiment, but I don't share it. I don't give a shit what a welfare recipient does with the welfare money they get. If liquor makes them happy, maximizes their utility, "Drink up", I say. Most people will use the program responsibly. And some won't. It's still the best approach to welfare.

[ShepherdsDog]

Then as a society we're not really looking out for their 'welfare' are we?

[Proculation]

I don't agree with you.

Some people are 'out' of the society and need some directions and help. By giving them free rent is not the good way. But, by giving them access to programs to help them and by giving money in those programs, free will, I'm in that.

You can't give money to someone who was out of our society for so much years.. It's money thrown out in the air. I've seen that.

[Proculation]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Then as a society we're not really looking out for their 'welfare' are we?

The government doesn't think like that. They think that to go from A to D, you have to help them to jump steps.

You can't go from A to D. You have to pass by B and C.

[Lemmy]

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I don't agree with you.

Some people are 'out' of the society and need some directions and help. By giving them free rent is not the good way. But, by giving them access to programs to help them and by giving money in those programs, free will, I'm in that.

You can't give money to someone who was out of our society for so much years.. It's money thrown out in the air. I've seen that.

I'm not against eduction. That's a different matter altogether. Education doesn't pay the rent or feed the baby though. We're talking about welfare and that should be doled out in cash, not subsidized housing.

[Proculation]

Lemmy Lemmy:

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I don't agree with you.

Some people are 'out' of the society and need some directions and help. By giving them free rent is not the good way. But, by giving them access to programs to help them and by giving money in those programs, free will, I'm in that.

You can't give money to someone who was out of our society for so much years.. It's money thrown out in the air. I've seen that.

I'm not against eduction. That;s a different matter altogether. Education doesn't pay the rent of feed the baby though. We're talking about welfare and that should be doled out in cash, not subsidized housing.

And, again, i'm all with you for that part. But that cash cannot be thrown at them. It must be administered by some private organism until they are able to handle a budget.

[Lemmy]

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[And, again, i'm all with you for that part. But that cash cannot be thrown at them. It must be administered by some private organism until they are able to handle a budget.

I think that would be an expensive, inefficient bureaucracy that would only be of use to a very small portion of recipients.

[Proculation]

Lemmy Lemmy:

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[And, again, i'm all with you for that part. But that cash cannot be thrown at them. It must be administered by some private organism until they are able to handle a budget.

I think that would be an expensive, inefficient bureaucracy that would only be of use to a very small portion of recipients.

And you think that giving money directly to the individuals would not be expensive, inefficient, in their situation ?

[Lemmy]

Of course it would be expensive and inefficient. It would be better if the recipients could make it on their own. But the reality is that the typical recipient of welfare is a single working mother that just can't make the rent. She needs $500 a month, cash, to spend on groceries, and utilities and a baby-sitter and some booze maybe too A LOT more than she needs a $1000/month apartment and an army of bureaucrats watching her every move. Giving cash is absolutely the most efficient method of delivering welfare.

[Proculation]

Lemmy.... we are talking about the HOMELESS here. Not the poor.