[Proculation]

CRAZY, CRAZY, YOU MAKE ME CRAZY !! LOOSING MY MIND !!! (solo)

i need your love.. HONEY !
i need your loveeeeeee !

you jagged me.

[Mustang1]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

On one hand I'm very glad to see this poll, but it would be foolish to say that idea of sovereignty will ever cease to be an issue in Quebec altogether. Far from it. If the separatists had a nickel for every time someone in the Anglo press sounded sovereignty's death bell, they might actually have enough money to win. No matter how many times people say it's dead, it always comes back. Quebec separatism is Canada's Freddy Krueger.

On the other hand, just like in 1980, I think these poll results risk comforting too many people into complacently accepting the constitutional status quo, when in reality ALL Canada's provinces stand to benefit from some constitutional reform comporting greater provincial autonomy and responsibility and less federal interference in areas of provincial concern.

Really? Sovereignty's relevancy currently on par with mid 90's or early 80's or 70's? It's slowly becoming immaterial and while its certainly not gone, i suspect that with demographics and immigration it will slowly become a fringe political worldview.

And there's no demonstrably justifiable reason to amend the constitution.

[BartSimpson]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

And there's no demonstrably justifiable reason to amend the constitution.

Sure there is.

#1. Abolish the 'notwithstanding clause'.

#2. Recognize the rights of property owners of record and thereby put an end to the eternal BS of First Nations land claims.

#3. Recognize freedom of speech as an inalienable right that cannot be abrogated by Parliament or the courts.

[Mustang1]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

#1. Abolish the 'notwithstanding clause'.

Why? It serves a useful function by ensuring some semblance of Parliamentary supremacy and it also as a check on the court's power (in Sec 2, 7-15). Besides, there would be no charter without it - that's a historical reality.

$1:

#3. Recognize freedom of speech as an inalienable right that cannot be abrogated by Parliament or the courts.

Uhh...freedom is speech is enshrined in the charter - it simply isn't unbridled nor should it be.

Sorry, my country is doing just fine and i don't see any demonstrably justifiable reasons to enact the political divisive amending formula (see Meech or Charlottetown for how that one works for major amendments.

[Proculation]

lol

Bart. I think you don't understand how our constitution is closed. We can't amend it like that.

[Mustang1]

Proculation Proculation:

lol

Bart. I think you don't understand how our constitution is closed. We can't amend it like that.

Well...certainly not easily. And let's be honest - who's gonna' risk the potential political backlash over such a divisive issue?

[Proculation]

Amendments to the Canadian constitution:

Wikipedia Wikipedia:

* Constitution Amendment, 1983: strengthened Aboriginal rights in the Constitution. This amendment was made using the 7/50 formula.
* Constitution Act, 1985 (Representaton): modified the formula for apportioning seats in the House of Commons.
* Constitution Amendment, 1987 (Newfoundland Act): extended education rights to the Pentecostal Church in Newfoundland (repealed by 1998 Amendment).
* Constitution Amendment, 1993 (New Brunswick): added Section 16.1 to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which made the English and French linguistic communities in New Brunswick equal, with the right to distinct cultural and educational institutions.
* Constitution Amendment, 1993 (Prince Edward Island): allowed for a "fixed link" bridge to replace ferrying services to Prince Edward Island.
* Constitution Amendment, 1997 (Newfoundland Act): allowed the Province of Newfoundland to create a secular school system to replace the church-based education system.
* Constitution Amendment, 1997 (Quebec): permitted the Province of Quebec to replace the denominational school boards with ones organized on linguistic lines.
* Constitution Amendment, 1998 (Newfoundland Act): ended denominational quotas for Newfoundland religion classes.
* Constitution Act, 1999 (Nunavut): granted the Territory of Nunavut representation in Parliament.
* Constitution Amendment, 2001 (Newfoundland and Labrador): changed the name of the "Province of Newfoundland" to the "Province of Newfoundland and Labrador".

They are almost all just "small" amendments (change the name of a province and create Nunavut...). Create a bridge. Schools.

The major one was the first.

But they are things that are... "easy to pass". Try to scrap a line in the charter and add another. Forget that.

[Proculation]

Why you need to learn french: http://www.radioego.com/ego/listen/3282

hahaha that guy is mastering it.

[GreenTiger]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

We have French, and soon you'll have Spanish as your second official. language

Oh, and that's one big reason why I relish the thought of Canada and the US forming a North American Union.

Just imagine the pissing war that will go on when the Quebeckers demand that the Mexicans learn to speak French and then the Mexicans demand that the Quebeckers learn to speak Spanish.

Can't wait to sit back and watch the fun between two 'special' groups as they fight over who is more special.

You're right. If the North American Union were to established the pissing contest between Quebec and Mexico as to which group is more "special" would be fun to watch for decades.

[Proculation]

Now you need to understand french to listen to what I posted

[Bodah]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

And there's no demonstrably justifiable reason to amend the constitution.

According to Mac if some in Quebec think so it must be worth it, after all in his own words Quebec is the only interesting part of Canada the rest of us are just a light beer version of Americans, you know because we both speak English choose to watch House, Lost instead of Little Mosque on the Prairie etc.

[MacDonaill]

Bodah Bodah:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

And there's no demonstrably justifiable reason to amend the constitution.

According to Mac if some in Quebec think so it must be worth it, after all in his own words Quebec is the only interesting part of Canada the rest of us are just a light beer version of Americans, you know because we both speak English choose to watch House, Lost instead of Little Mosque on the Prairie etc.

I love how you try so hard to speak for me instead of with me.

If you were so convinced that what I have said about English-Canadians is total and complete ridiculous bullshit, you would have already laughed it off, called me an idiot and shut up about it. But here you go out of your way to post an unsolicited commentary not really about the subject, but about something I said almost two weeks ago.

How many times have I defended federalism on these boards? Tons, in both languages. But your small ego is so crushed by a little comment like the one I made that all that means nothing, and you're now very happy to lump me in with all the spearatists because I recognise what is only too evident: that the Constitution will one day have to change in some way. Anybody with half a brain has to realise that this kind of constitutional limbo can't go on forever.

There isn't even one single political party in Quebec, major or minor, that has the signing of the Constitution as a part of its platform. Why? Because it's political suicide to even suggest it. That's a fact, and not one that fits well with your 'some dude in Quebec who's unhappy' theory

Even if, for the moment, separatism's inertia has died down, it doesn't mean that Quebeckers are any happier with the status quo. For the second most populated province to not even want to sign the Constitution, I think it says a lot about how much we do need to stop burying our heads in the sand and settle the issue.

[MacDonaill]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Really? Sovereignty's relevancy currently on par with mid 90's or early 80's or 70's? It's slowly becoming immaterial and while its certainly not gone, i suspect that with demographics and immigration it will slowly become a fringe political worldview.

After the loss in 1980, people thought separatism was dead, and it was for a while...

Then there was Meech Lake and Charlottetown.

After the narrowloss in 1995, people again said it was dead, and it was for a while...

Then came the sponsorphip scandal, which pushed support for sovereignty to 54% (luckily, the PLQ was in power, so there was no referendum).

Now the movement is back down, but Quebec nationalism and Quebec separatism are two separate beasts, and all it takes is another crisis with Ottawa for the PQ to make significant gains among soft nationalists. It will always be like that until the issue is settled.

[Bodah]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

I love how you try so hard to speak for me instead of with me.

Why would I want to speak to a person who say's the only interesting part about Canada is Quebec ?

So yeah I'm no longer interested in speaking with your ilk, get bent.

[ShepherdsDog]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

Bodah Bodah:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

And there's no demonstrably justifiable reason to amend the constitution.

According to Mac if some in Quebec think so it must be worth it, after all in his own words Quebec is the only interesting part of Canada the rest of us are just a light beer version of Americans, you know because we both speak English choose to watch House, Lost instead of Little Mosque on the Prairie etc.

I love how you try so hard to speak for me instead of with me.

If you were so convinced that what I have said about English-Canadians is total and complete ridiculous bullshit, you would have already laughed it off, called me an idiot and shut up about it. But here you go out of your way to post an unsolicited commentary not really about the subject, but about something I said almost two weeks ago.

How many times have I defended federalism on these boards? Tons, in both languages. But your small ego is so crushed by a little comment like the one I made that all that means nothing, and you're now very happy to lump me in with all the spearatists because I recognise what is only too evident: that the Constitution will one day have to change in some way. Anybody with half a brain has to realise that this kind of constitutional limbo can't go on forever.

There isn't even one single political party in Quebec, major or minor, that has the signing of the Constitution as a part of its platform. Why? Because it's political suicide to even suggest it. That's a fact, and not one that fits well with your 'some dude in Quebec who's unhappy' theory

Even if, for the moment, separatism's inertia has died down, it doesn't mean that Quebeckers are any happier with the status quo. For the second most populated province to not even want to sign the Constitution, I think it says a lot about how much we do need to stop burying our heads in the sand and settle the issue.