[ShepherdsDog]

kenmore kenmore:

I love how you pull the separatist card all the time.. and no I don't have to shut up.. last time I looked you don't live in Québec so you really don't have a say.. so f..you!........

You don't either...according to your own posts you live in Ontario. I guess you should heed your own advice.

$1:

And don't think I am hypocritical at all.. I am consistently anti immigration from the middle east.. Vive le Québec the only province with balls!

Is that why you had to leave?

[kenmore]

I live in Ontario but my home is in Québec.. I will be moving back there soon enough.. I go home most week-ends and one of my sons lives in my house there.. you can take me out of Québec but you can't take Québec out of me

[Gunnair]

kenmore kenmore:

I love how you pull the separatist card all the time.. and no I don't have to shut up.. last time I looked you don't live in Québec so you really don't have a say.. so f..you!

You're a seperatist - you have no say period.

[2Cdo]

kenmore kenmore:

I live in Ontario but my home is in Québec.. I will be moving back there soon enough.

Not soon enough, don't let the door hit you in the ass when you leave.

$1:

I go home most week-ends and one of my sons lives in my house there.. you can take me out of Québec but you can't take Québec out of me

Hard to give up the "gimme, gimme" mentality Quebec fosters.

[EyeBrock]

I have mixed feelings on this.

The whole 'take your Niqab off so I can see your lips' seems like BS to me. But.....the Niqab issue does kinda seem very hypocritical.

This is not a 'religious' issue but a 'cultural' one.

Nowhere in the Quran does it say that woman should be covered from head-to-foot with little slits for eyes. It does say that women should dress modestly, that's it.

Therefore my view on this is that this woman’s CULTURAL intransigence is an issue here. She could easily wear a Hijab or something similar and meet Quranic requirements.

She’s just making a statement about her fundamentalist beliefs and her stance of refusing to give an inch on her cultural beliefs in a new country.


On the other side of this, the teacher's actions (sanctioned by the college) seem way too harsh and unaccommodating.

Really, both sides are being knobs here.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I have mixed feelings on this.

The whole 'take your Niqab off so I can see your lips' seems like BS to me. But.....the Niqab issue does kinda seem very hypocritical.

This is not a 'religious' issue but a 'cultural' one.

Nowhere in the Quran does it say that woman should be covered from head-to-foot with little slits for eyes. It does say that women should dress modestly, that's it.

Therefore my view on this is that this woman’s CULTURAL intransigence is an issue here. She could easily wear a Hijab or something similar and meet Quranic requirements.

She’s just making a statement about her fundamentalist beliefs and her stance of refusing to give an inch on her cultural beliefs in a new country.


On the other side of this, the teacher's actions (sanctioned by the college) seem way too harsh and unaccommodating.

Really, both sides are being knobs here.

OK - maybe then you can tell me what the school should have done to accommodate her? I pressed Stokes on this point, but his only reply was that they should have done "something."

[GreenTiger]

This Islamic twit is taking a free class to learn a language that is required in Quebec. The VERY LEAST she can do is obey the provincial policies. If she has a "problem" with that she isn't going to fit in at all in normal Quebec life. What will she do the next time she faces some "un Islamic" feature of Quebec Life, cry her human rights are violated again.

Quebec, Canada is NOT AN ISLAMIC COUNTRY.
If that overwealms her sense of propriety she is perfectly free to return to Egypt where whe ban be legally be beaten and abused under Sharia Law.

I wouldn't want what to served by someone wearing a hood especially in medical care.

[PimpBrewski123]

In some ways, EyeBrock, I agree with your post.

But there is also an important issue to consider also. To what point should we, as a society, have to give in to every little demand or accommodations. Not only speaking for Quebec here, but as a Canadian society. The following are only examples but take that Christmas Tree issue in Ontario a while ago. Plus, Sikhs hardhats and so on. If this keeps up, there will no longer be any culture in Canada. Again, this is only an opinion.

The adoptive country being the essential here. Some immigrants only look to make a good contributions to this country upon their arrival while some others bring their old traditions and expect the locals to adapt to them.

[EyeBrock]

andyt andyt:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I have mixed feelings on this.

The whole 'take your Niqab off so I can see your lips' seems like BS to me. But.....the Niqab issue does kinda seem very hypocritical.

This is not a 'religious' issue but a 'cultural' one.

Nowhere in the Quran does it say that woman should be covered from head-to-foot with little slits for eyes. It does say that women should dress modestly, that's it.

Therefore my view on this is that this woman’s CULTURAL intransigence is an issue here. She could easily wear a Hijab or something similar and meet Quranic requirements.

She’s just making a statement about her fundamentalist beliefs and her stance of refusing to give an inch on her cultural beliefs in a new country.


On the other side of this, the teacher's actions (sanctioned by the college) seem way too harsh and unaccommodating.

Really, both sides are being knobs here.

OK - maybe then you can tell me what the school should have done to accommodate her? I pressed Stokes on this point, but his only reply was that they should have done "something."

Well, I think Niqab vs Hijab might have been a start. The reports on having her take the Niqab off so that the teacher could see her mouth vowel movements sounds really like they were looking for a reason to de-Niqab her.

The optics don't look good, it looks like they are looking for an excuse.

[martin14]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Well, I think Niqab vs Hijab might have been a start. The reports on having her take the Niqab off so that the teacher could see her mouth vowel movements sounds really like they were looking for a reason to de-Niqab her.

The optics don't look good, it looks like they are looking for an excuse.

I teach.. its important.
I do it for my Italian lessons, and when I was learning Slovak.

Shep teaches.. ask him.

ask B how much time she spent looking at the teacher's mouth
when she was learning English.

You'd be surprised how many of my students can have
a perfectly normal conversation face to face, and then
lose it on the telephone.

My company even has specific courses for it.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Well, I think Niqab vs Hijab might have been a start. The reports on having her take the Niqab off so that the teacher could see her mouth vowel movements sounds really like they were looking for a reason to de-Niqab her.

The optics don't look good, it looks like they are looking for an excuse.

Hijab doesn't cover the face, right. I doubt they would have had an argument with her about that. They asked her to remove her veil while checking out her enunciation - ie would have been fully covered otherwise, except for the face, so they did try to accommodate her, but she wasn't having any of it.

[EyeBrock]

martin14 martin14:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Well, I think Niqab vs Hijab might have been a start. The reports on having her take the Niqab off so that the teacher could see her mouth vowel movements sounds really like they were looking for a reason to de-Niqab her.

The optics don't look good, it looks like they are looking for an excuse.

I teach.. its important.
I do it for my Italian lessons, and when I was learning Slovak.

Shep teaches.. ask him.

ask B how much time she spent looking at the teacher's mouth
when she was learning English.

You'd be surprised how many of my students can have
a perfectly normal conversation face to face, and then
lose it on the telephone.

My company even has specific courses for it.

I'm sure you are right martin, I'm just looking at the optics. It looks bad and that's what any reader of this will think.

[andyt]

One reason it looks bad is because of the reporting. The college did not ask her to remover her head covering. It asked her to remove the veil during those times they needed to see her lips. This veil is hooked on one side, it's a simple thing to drop it as needed.

[EyeBrock]

andyt andyt:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Well, I think Niqab vs Hijab might have been a start. The reports on having her take the Niqab off so that the teacher could see her mouth vowel movements sounds really like they were looking for a reason to de-Niqab her.

The optics don't look good, it looks like they are looking for an excuse.

Hijab doesn't cover the face, right. I doubt they would have had an argument with her about that. They asked her to remove her veil while checking out her enunciation - ie would have been fully covered otherwise, except for the face, so they did try to accommodate her, but she wasn't having any of it.

Yep, a Hijab just covers the hair, some versions cover that tantalising female neck too. Necks just drive me into a state of lust.

I think the way to go on these fundamentalist requests is to look at a compromise that actually has a link to the Quran.
Having an option that 'accommodates' instead of just 'opposing' would make the school look good instead of how they look now. This would take the wind of the sails of the fundamentalists who love it when anybody challenges the archaic cultural nuances of some of Islam’s faithful.

Don't get me wrong, I think the whole 'accommodation' thing is one way street at the moment. Canadian culture and society is being expected to bend over backwards to newcomers, with little expectation for immigrants to change their ways in order to better integrate into Canada.

[andyt]

Well, again. The college did not ask her to remover her head covering, but to uncover her face at those times when it was important to see her lips. And, for the new semester a male teacher was teaching the course, so the woman was not willing to uncover her face for him, one on one, as she had done with the previous female teacher. I do think it's too much to ask the college to select the gender of their instructors just to please a student, tho I'm sure it would make the womyn at the campus very happy.