[stemmer]

Then explain the criminal investigation of Toyota by the government of Japan in 2006 which resulted in the CEO resigning?

[commanderkai]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Surely the Americans aren't foolish enough to make the same mistakes they made 30+ years ago. It was American protectionism, in the form of "voluntary export restrictions", in the 1970s that drove the price of Toyotas and Hondas up, earning those companies MASSIVE profits.

Governments aren't logical. They do whatever they like that serves their best interests.

$1:

Toyota's only mistake with this current accelerator problem is that they recalled the vehicles. By taking responsibility for fixing a MINOR problem, they earned scores of bad press.

And this is where you're wrong. Toyota's mistake isn't that it recalled it's vehicles. It's mistake was that it attempted to blame an issue solely on driver error and "Floor mats", totally discounting any ideas that it was a design flaw with their vehicles.

Look at Ford Explorers. The issue specifically with the incidents was bad tires, HOWEVER, a design flaw in the vehicle caused the number of deaths and bad press.

Another example. General Motors conducted a recall on 1.5 million cars from the fear of possible fires in their engine. This occurred not long before their bankruptcy, where bad press like this would be avoided like the plague

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/14/gm.recall/index.html

Seemingly, however...bad press for domestic automakers keeps on coming, doesn't it? No matter how immediate or responsible they are whenever they call a recall over a possible problem, they're still lambasted because of the Ford Pinto.

$1:

They would have been better off to act like Ford or GM and just let the customers pay for the repairs on those FEW cars that actually malfunction.

Just curious, what proof that General Motors and Ford makes their customers pay whenever they conduct a recall over a bad part in their vehicles?

GM:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2942792520080829

Ford:
http://www.ford.com/dynamic/metatags/ar ... all_update

These examples mentions the replacement is free, but if you have some cases that this isn't the case, please provide good proof of it.

$1:

The xenophobes turned this story from what should have been a SUPERB example of customer support into a Japanese conspiracy on the scale of the Pearl Harbor attack. So much for a company doing right by consumers. The lesson learned is to keep your mouth shut and let the car-owner look after their own repairs, like the Big 3 have been doing FOREVER.

Actually, if your theory is correct, that this was "Superb customer support" (It wasn't, considering the first "floor mat" recall happened two years ago, and yet the problem still exists) then Toyota seems to be ended, with their taking a page from the domestic playbook from probably before I was even born.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6180W020100209

That's the two years statistic, under August 2008 within the article.

[Lemmy]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Just curious, what proof that General Motors and Ford makes their customers pay whenever they conduct a recall over a bad part in their vehicles?

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying the Big Three, for DECADES, made shitty cars that they DIDN'T recall, leaving the owners of those lemons to service them out of their own pockets. If the Big Three had to recall all their cars for every little design flaw, they'd be perpetually in the shop.

[stemmer]

Lemmy where is the link to support your allegations or are you passing off your opinion as fact (once again)?

[Lemmy]

stemmer stemmer:

Lemmy where is the link to support your allegations or are you passing off your opinion as fact (once again)?

Link to what allegation? Do you want to see my bank statements for all the repairs to Fords, Dodges and GMs I've owned in my lifetime?

[2Cdo]

Lemmy Lemmy:

stemmer stemmer:

Lemmy where is the link to support your allegations or are you passing off your opinion as fact (once again)?

Link to what allegation? Do you want to see my bank statements for all the repairs to Fords, Dodges and GMs I've owned in my lifetime?

I've routinely had "domestic vehicles" suffer serious mechanical breakdowns within days of a warranty ending. Never had it happen with an import.

[BartSimpson]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

I've routinely had "domestic vehicles" suffer serious mechanical breakdowns within days of a warranty ending. Never had it happen with an import.

Hmmm. A bit of good luck I need to admit to here: My 1993 Volvo 850 had the transmission die with 75 miles left on the warranty. Lucky me.

[Proculation]

One question: how can a competitor create an inquiry and ask things to Toyota ? (GM is nationalized, the US govt is the major shareholder)

[stemmer]

I thought the UAW was the major shareholder.... But even if it were how is that different in Canada with the government, CBC and CRTC regulating the competition?

[Proculation]

stemmer stemmer:

I thought the UAW was the major shareholder.... But even if it were how is that different in Canada with the government, CBC and CRTC regulating the competition?

No, the US govt is the major shareholder of GM. Canada is also a minor shareholder, less then 10% I think.

As for your second statement: it's the same thing. How can they regulate CTV when they manage CBC ? I think the difference is that the governing body, CRTC, is "non-political" (sic).

[commanderkai]

Lemmy Lemmy:

commanderkai commanderkai:

Just curious, what proof that General Motors and Ford makes their customers pay whenever they conduct a recall over a bad part in their vehicles?

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying the Big Three, for DECADES, made shitty cars that they DIDN'T recall, leaving the owners of those lemons to service them out of their own pockets. If the Big Three had to recall all their cars for every little design flaw, they'd be perpetually in the shop.

Just to quote you:

"They would have been better off to act like Ford or GM and just let the customers pay for the repairs on those FEW cars that actually malfunction."

You said this, in a discussion over recalled Toyotas from the last few years. Now, General Motors, Ford, Volvo, and every other car company has conducted recalls over possible faults in their vehicles, even as the quality of many domestic vehicles has increased from their Pinto days, that's a part of life when you have vehicles made out of a diverse set of parts from numerous companies. Such is life. Computers, aircraft, and heck, even appliances have the same issues.

Now, companies make shitty products. Some people, seemingly yourself included, are still upset over buying a car from years before my birth. Fine. That's your choice to not get over it. However, recalls, EVEN back then, still happened, because of faulty parts. There's a difference between having a design flaw, and just being a shitty product. The design is fine, it's just a terrible one that you didn't like.

Now, here's my example. Remember the Ford Explorer issue? Design flaw. That's why it always rolled over. No matter how many parts you replace, you can't stop the rollovers due to the design. Toyota at first attempted to put off this fault by saying it was floor mats. This worked, until more cases of sudden acceleration occurred, as well as more deaths. Their fix went from shitty floor mats, to shitty pedals, and now it still continues. This leads to another possible conclusion...that's there is a major fault with the design of the car, that cannot easily be fixed by switching mats. Some people are saying it might be the electronics/programming of the car that causes the issue. A glitch, or a virus even. Something about the car's programming is faulty, and that won't be fixed by just switching a part.

But yes, it comes down to this. General Motors and Ford has a legacy of bad products in the 70-90s. Some people are bitter over buying bad products, like you, it seems. That's fine, you can hold a grudge. But your biases against General Motors and Ford does not change the fact that Toyota royally screwed up here.

[Lemmy]

You bet, the reason I won't buy a domestic now is that I've been burned a dozen times. Maybe the domestics make better cars now, I don't know. I don't care. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. All I'm saying is this: Toyota's current problem is a MINOR problem, occurring RARELY and remedied EASILY. Toyota recognized the problem and fixed it. And took shit for that. The cars are still good. I don't understand why people are criticizing Toyota for discovering a problem and fixing it, with no cost or inconvenience to its customers. What SHOULD they have done differently?

[vinbytes]

Nice videos. I have watched it and It is funny

[wlsale]

There are two factors that make Toyota’s situation different, Hoffer said. The other manufacturers were dealing with one model, and they were older vehicles that were out of production or about to go out of production, he said.

[stemmer]

Lemmy Lemmy:

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying the Big Three, for DECADES, made shitty cars that they DIDN'T recall, leaving the owners of those lemons to service them out of their own pockets. If the Big Three had to recall all their cars for every little design flaw, they'd be perpetually in the shop.

Now let me get this straight... You whine that none of your GM cars lasted long yet in another thread you tell me you presently own a 1986 or 87 Buick Grand National. That's a 20+ year old GM product...

Now do you really believe any of your current Toyota vehicles will still be in your possession in 20 years time?