[gonavy47]

kenmore kenmore:

Best leader and best PM... ever!

Excuse me while I puke! (but you are entitled to your opinion, in a free country of course. A country that Trudeau wouldn't take up arms and fight for)

[Mustang1]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Had Borden told the British to get stuffed, that would have moved Canadian independence up several decades. He missed that chance.

That's speculation. The only thing we can objectively judge him on is the fact that he did help facilitate the Imperial War Cabinet and don't dismiss Canada's significant Great War contributions in their relation to the later Statute of Westminster (and the buildup conferences)

These are significant components of Canadian history.

$1:

And I don't see how Belgium's problems were in any way Canada's. WWI was a fool's war, fought out of Nationalistic bravado. It was the great folly of the 20th century.

Belgium's problems were our issue because they were the victims of vicious German attempts at European hegemony - while i agree that nationalism was indeed a cause, i don't remove Germany's jingoism (or A-H or Russia) or belligerence from the equation. Canada - despite nationalism of our own - had a duty to help those in need and as such, Belgium and France did deserve our assistance. Very similar points were brought up about 1939.

Other than that, i do see your points. Thanks for quick, civilized exchange.

[Yogi]

What bouchard says is of no consequence either way. He never had any creds outside of Quebec.

Reminds me of a joke of years gone by. Actually, proly more truth to it than not!

"What has 3 legs and 1/2 a brain?



















Lucien Bouchard & Jacques Parrizeau! sp

[kenmore]

gonavy47 gonavy47:

kenmore kenmore:

Best leader and best PM... ever!

Excuse me while I puke! (but you are entitled to your opinion, in a free country of course. A country that Trudeau wouldn't take up arms and fight for)

Like how old are you ? Where you around in the Trudeau days? old enough to vote... study the man and get some answers and info before you puke...

[kenmore]

Yogi Yogi:

What bouchard says is of no consequence either way. He never had any creds outside of Quebec.

Reminds me of a joke of years gone by. Actually, proly more truth to it than not!

"What has 3 legs and 1/2 a brain?


Spoken like a true Albertan..


















Lucien Bouchard & Jacques Parrizeau! sp

[Yogi]

kenmore kenmore:

gonavy47 gonavy47:

kenmore kenmore:

Best leader and best PM... ever!

Excuse me while I puke! (but you are entitled to your opinion, in a free country of course. A country that Trudeau wouldn't take up arms and fight for)

Like how old are you ? Where you around in the Trudeau days? old enough to vote... study the man and get some answers and info before you puke...

Well, I was. And I concur with gonavy!

[Arctic_Menace]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Lemmy Lemmy:

King totally blew it on Nazi appeasement and was an anti-semite...well, anti anything but WASP.

Many blew it on Nazi appeasement (careful about 20/20 hindsight), but King still answered the call when it mattered and led Canada - as an independent nation - into its finest military achievement. That's the epitome of leadership. And what about advocation of the state's role in social-welfare? What about wooing the Progressives? His handling of the Chanak crisis? The Rowell-
Sirois Commission? His friendship with FDR? The beginnings of the Welfare State?

Hardly an "also ran"

$1:

Laurier governed in good times, facing little controversy (Boer War?, not much of big deal, compared with other PMs' problems) and most of his successes were continuations of Macdonald's programs (rails, settling the west, developing domestic industry, etc).

Huh? The Manitoba School Crisis? The Boer War? Reciprocity? The Naval Crisis? Alaska Boundary Dispute? That's a "little controversy"? Not according to history or its chroniclers. Laurier's politics of compromise catapult him into an unique place in Canadian political history.

$1:

Borden should have kept Canada out of WWI, which was a horrible European war, fought for no good reasons, that Canada had no businesses being part of.

Nope. Canada was automatically at war when Britain declared it. Borden help forge our international Independence with his insistence on the Imperial War Cabinet - a major shift in Dominion/Imperial relations and a massive shift in Canadian political history - he, and Smuts, helped transform the structure of the British Empire. Add to that his ability to create the CEF - the largest army to cross the Atlantic in history - and reform the voting acts and he becomes one of Canada's most significant PMs.

Oh...and WWI was a necessary conflict. Ask the Belgians.

$1:

Pearson's greatest achievements were really Douglas's achievements and Uncle Louis, like Laurier, governed in such good times that there was little need for a great leader (even a turkey can fly in a strong enough wind).

Pearson's rebuilding of the Liberal Party, co-operative federalism, The Bi-Bi Commission and his masterful maneuverings during minority governments all should get recognition.

$1:

If King hadn't been such a kook and either Laurier or Borden had told Britain to fuck off when they asked for support for the maintenance of Empire, I'd think more highly of them.

Actually, you're wrong - Laurier did stand up to the British Empire during his compromises to the Boer War and the Naval Crisis (the Naval Service Bill) - he certainly didn't give what they initially wanted - besides, maybe you should also look at what the contemporary populace wanted as well. And Bordon's insistence for an Imperial War Cabinet and a seat at Versailles also warrant respect.

$1:

I'll stand by my "two horse race" contention.

Your prerogative.

One thing to add to all that; English Canada was incredibly pro-British at the outbreak of WWI and many were more than willing to fight for the Empire. It wasn't until half-way through the war that Canadians started to see themselves as something more than British subjects and we asserted this by getting a seat at Versailles.

Borden simply could not have told the British to "get stuffed" since as you said we were automatically at war but also because it would've been political suicide.

[kenmore]

And you are from Alberta....big surprise there eh.

[Arctic_Menace]

kenmore kenmore:

And you are from Alberta....big surprise there eh.

Dude...

I'm from Ontario and a proud Liberal and even I don't think Trudeau was the best.

[kenmore]

Wasn't referring to you Artic ... it was Yogi..your post got in between mine.. it was addressed to him... And I am from Québec and happen to think that Trudeau did more for the country than anyone before or after. He didn't take crap from the separatist and he told greedy Alberta where to shove it. I knew the man and I have studied him in depth. He was a great Canadian who felt all provinces were entitled to a piece of the pie no matter how big or small they were and he felt we were all equal. He had radical views in his youth, but many did in the pre and post war era. He put this country on the map and he reined in govenment and was pro human rights. Something that is at risk with the current PM.. Albertans opinion of him is based on their greed and his giving them the deserved finger.

[Yogi]

The NEP was introduced in the wake of the energy crises of the 1970s. Because of high oil prices, several economic problems that were beginning to manifest themselves through the 1970s were accelerated and magnified. Inflation was out of control and interest rates were through the roof. Unemployment was epidemic in the eastern provinces where the Trudeau government had much of its political support.[1] The NEP was designed to promote oil self-sufficiency for Canada, maintain the oil supply, particularly for the industrial base in eastern Canada, promote Canadian ownership of the energy industry, promote lower prices, promote exploration for oil in Canada, promote alternative energy sources, and increase government revenues from oil sales through a variety of taxes and agreements.[2] The NEP's Petroleum Gas Revenue Tax (PGRT) instituted a double-taxation mechanism that did not apply to other commodities, such as gold and copper (see "Program details" item (c), below). The program would "... redistribute revenue from the [oil] industry and lessen the cost of oil for Eastern Canada..." in an attempt to insulate the Canadian economy from the shock of rising global oil prices[3] (see "Program details" item (a), below). By keeping domestic oil prices below world market prices, the NEP was essentially mandating provincial generosity and subsidizing all Canadian consumers of fuel, primarily at Alberta's expense.[4]

Nuff said!

[gonavy47]

FYI Kenmore, I did vote for Trudeau when he first ran for PM. BIGGEST MISTAKE I EVER MADE. I don't have to do "research", I had to put up with the idiot! The man was an embarassment to many people in this country, the pirouetting fool! He was a real clown. By the way, just how old are you?

[ShepherdsDog]

old enough that senile dementia seems to be setting in

[MacDonaill]

Wow. There are many legitimate criticims to be made about P.E.T. (as with ANY world leader) but most of you are simply proving yourselves to be nothing but windbags and broken records with such poignant critiques as 'asshole' and 'idiot'.

One thing Trudeau was not was an idiot. You might not agree with everything he did, but the fact remains that he was one of the most educated and intelligent people this country has ever produced, the only world-class PM we have ever had and one of the brightest of the final generation of classically educated renaissance men born and bread on Canadian soil.

[Yogi]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

Wow. There are many legitimate criticims to be made about P.E.T. (as with ANY world leader) but most of you are simply proving yourselves to be nothing but windbags and broken records with such poignant critiques as 'asshole' and 'idiot'.

One thing Trudeau was not was an idiot. You might not agree with everything he did, but the fact remains that he was one of the most educated and intelligent people this country has ever produced, the only world-class PM we have ever had and one of the brightest of the final generation of classically educated renaissance men born and bread on Canadian soil.

Pierre Trudeau was one of Canada's most well-known politicians of the twentieth century. Infamous for not worrying about public perceptions of himself, Trudeau dated well-known celebrities, allegedly swore during a debate in the House of Commons, and even danced behind Queen Elizabeth II when her back was turned.[b] He will not be forgotten any time soon.[/b]....


But we're trying, we're trying!


A real 'class act', to be sure!

The Education of Trudeau
Born Joseph-Philippe-Pierre-Yves-Elliott Trudeau on 18 October 1919 in Montreal, Canada’s fifteenth Prime Minister was raised in luxury. Thanks to his father’s success in business, Pierre Trudeau was fortunate enough to avoid suffering the effects of the Depression, and was able to afford an education at any university he wished to attend. As such, Trudeau earned his law degree at the University of Montreal by 1943 and his master’s degree in political economy at Harvard University before travelling to Paris, France to audit classes at the Institut d’Etudes Politiques de Paris. Finally, he completed course work toward his doctorate at the London School of Economics, but did not complete his thesis, so did not obtain his degree.



Read more at Suite101: Pierre Elliott Trudeau: A Short Biography of Canada's Fifteenth Prime Minister http://politicians.suite101.com/article ... z0fxCUEnSj