[Lemmy]

On the provincial front, what the fuck is Dalton McGuinty doing jetting off to Mexico in the middle of all this?

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

On the provincial front, what the fuck is Dalton McGuinty doing jetting off to Mexico in the middle of all this?

You expect him to stay and administer shots?

Fuel the hysteria further with constant press conferences?

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

You expect him to stay and administer shots?

Fuel the hysteria further with constant press conferences?

No, but it'd be nice if he was at least on the bridge of the ship, should there be an emergency that needs some top-down leadership during this crisis.

[EyeBrock]

The problem is Lemmy, it's not being administered at Federal or Provincial level. OTI is right.

I'm no McGuinty fan but the province are passing the vaccine on, that's it.
Each region or municipality is doing the actual organisation of the physical distribution.
We have 3 levels of government and the bottom level is doing the vaccination.

All this finger pointing by the Federal Liberals is pathetic.

Health care is a provincial responsibility. Jabbing vaccines in peoples arms is a regional or municipal responsibilty.

[ridenrain]

Wow. Talk about scare tactics. Vote Liberal or everyone will die of plague and pandemic.
Did they get that from George Bush?

[Lemmy]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Health care is a provincial responsibility. Jabbing vaccines in peoples arms is a regional or municipal responsibilty.

Well, it is and it isn't. While Healthcare may be provincial, the funding for it is federal and the approval/testing process for drugs is federal. As you noted, the delivery of a lot of the services are regional. So, it's never really clear who has ultimate responsibility for anything, as I see it.

But the fact is that H1N1 and its related insanity and panic are here, now, and I think if you're a provincial Premier, you ought to be at home to, at least, give the public perception that you're working on the problem. Instead, McGuinty's off in Mexico on what is, at least in terms of public perception, as much a vacation as it is clout for a Pan-Am games bid.

[segno]

There are actually several issues that have all contributed to the current vaccine problems:

- As others have suggested before, the method of vaccine production (using eggs to incubate the virus) has given lower yields than in other years. (Can't really blame anyone for that; its basically biology in action.)

- The vaccine companies failed to inform the customers (i.e. the government) until it was too late that production problems might cause delays in filling the orders. (so for that, you can blame the company)

- The Canadian government decided to have the production run finished for the seasonal flu vaccine before switching over to H1N1. In a way, it saves production time overall, since they don't have to repeatedly change production lines from seasonal to H1N1 back to seasonal. However, it did mean that there was a delay in getting the first batch of H1N1 vaccine out. This is something that might be blamed on the conservatives (although its one of these things that has no real right-or-wrong answer, since people should also be vaccinated against seasonal flu strains as well.)

- There are 2 forms of the vaccine that were produced.. one with adjuvant (an additive to make the vaccine more effective), one without. The company was providing the vaccine with adjuvant, however, there were initially concerns that it hadn't been tested enough on pregnant women, so they stopped production to switch to the adjuvant-free version, adding to the delay. Since that time however, there have been studies showing the safety of the adjuvant-added vaccine for pregnant women. So, the conservatives could be blamed for getting the company to unnecessarily manufacture a second 'version' of the vaccine, but at the time it probably seemed like the 'safe' thing to do.

- Early polls suggested many people weren't going to get vaccinated. So, its almost understandable that the public health units weren't expecting as much response as they are currently getting. Perhaps had people made the proper decision to get vaccinated early (and indicated as such in the early polls), perhaps flu clinics would have been better organized.

So, the whole H1N1 flu vaccine mess that we're in has many causes.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2174929

[Akhenaten]

Good post sengo.

[EyeBrock]

Lemmy Lemmy:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Health care is a provincial responsibility. Jabbing vaccines in peoples arms is a regional or municipal responsibilty.

Well, it is and it isn't. While Healthcare may be provincial, the funding for it is federal and the approval/testing process for drugs is federal. As you noted, the delivery of a lot of the services are regional. So, it's never really clear who has ultimate responsibility for anything, as I see it.

But the fact is that H1N1 and its related insanity and panic are here, now, and I think if you're a provincial Premier, you ought to be at home to, at least, give the public perception that you're working on the problem. Instead, McGuinty's off in Mexico on what is, at least in terms of public perception, as much a vacation as it is clout for a Pan-Am games bid.

I kinda see your point but as one that has been heavily involved in aspects of the H1N1 response, another politician looking for votes is not the way to run this one.
As sengo put very well, this has been the veritable perfect storm.

We didn't expect the panic response. The regional health people were swamped.

The good thing is that the old plans have been thrown away and we now know what can happen when the public are scared by the media.

All of us have learned lessons on this and our response this week has taken in the mistakes and successes of last week. We can manage this and we are in good shape.

We just need to keep politicians as far out of this as we can. They will poke their nose in as that’s the nature of the democratic beast, but they never seem to help the situation as they look for votes.

[kenmore]

The fact of the matter is the minister of health is enept and screwed up. If she had be competent she would have had a handle on this and there would have been a supply for all. She didn't do her homework to know the issue regarding pregnant women and the need for an altered vaccine. Hence the regular production was put on hold causing a delay and so on... harper should really assess who he puts in these positions.. I mean its different than appointing cronies to the Senate where the expectation is nil. We are talking lives here...

[PluggyRug]

kenmore kenmore:

The fact of the matter is the minister of health is enept and screwed up. If she had be competent she would have had a handle on this and there would have been a supply for all. She didn't do her homework to know the issue regarding pregnant women and the need for an altered vaccine. Hence the regular production was put on hold causing a delay and so on... harper should really assess who he puts in these positions.. I mean its different than appointing cronies to the Senate where the expectation is nil. We are talking lives here...

Who's the "we", seems to be only you.

[Gunnair]

kenmore kenmore:

The fact of the matter is the minister of health is enept and screwed up.

Another kindred spirit, eh?

[ridenrain]

$1:

“Asked directly whether Canada is prepared to donate any surplus vaccine, the Conservative government – which has purchased 50.4 million doses of the H1N1 vaccine for Canadians from GlaxoSmithKline – ruled nothing in or out….

[Francoise] Baylis [a bioethicist at Dalhousie University in Halifax] said Canada’s 50 million doses should be more than enough to handle the number of people who want and need the vaccine. Assuming two doses of vaccine are needed per person, there is enough for 75 per cent of Canada’s 35 million people.

The expectation at this point is that only about 60 per cent of the population will want to be vaccinated, she said, meaning a surplus is likely.

Liberals and New Democrats say they’re prepared to push the government to step up to the plate.

‘Canadians have long understood that on this tiny planet we’re only as safe as the whole planet,’ said Liberal MP Carolyn Bennett, the party’s health critic.

Bennett said Canadian authorities should know by Christmas how much vaccine will be needed, and whether people should have one or two doses.”

http://www.canada.com/Health/Give+Canad ... story.html

[OnTheIce]

Gunnair Gunnair:

kenmore kenmore:

The fact of the matter is the minister of health is enept and screwed up.

Another kindred spirit, eh?

Did you expect anything else?

[putz]

kenmore kenmore:

The fact of the matter is the minister of health is enept and screwed up. If she had be competent she would have had a handle on this and there would have been a supply for all. She didn't do her homework to know the issue regarding pregnant women and the need for an altered vaccine. Hence the regular production was put on hold causing a delay and so on... harper should really assess who he puts in these positions.. I mean its different than appointing cronies to the Senate where the expectation is nil. We are talking lives here...

Yeah they (Liberals and NDP) should call an election over this and topple the Harper government. I'm sure that would work out great for them.