[Freakinoldguy]

Crime is always gonna be there, but it's how we manage the safety of the rest of the population that's in question.

The longer a criminal is in prison means it's less time he'll be on the streets reoffending, if that's the choice he makes, which means that the safety of the population is increased.

Giving them a free ride for double time just because they're in a remand center, isn't the answer anymore than a watered down semi tough on crime bill, of time and a half served is.

They should be doing a day for a day no matter where they serve their sentences and if they don't like it tough, they committed the crime and they should be doing the "real time".

But, to be fair. If on the odd chance one of these whiners get's off after serving time awaiting trial, he should be monetarily compensated for his ordeal. This might just speed up the justice system, since everyone knows that money, not rehabilitation or punishment is the driving force in the judicial system.

[2Cdo]

DerbyX DerbyX:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Of course crime will still happen but maybe we can start doing something that benefits victims rights as opposed to always worrying about criminals rights.

Well I agree about focusing on victims rights but neither of these bills nor any that seem to be proposed by Conservatives focus on the victims of crimes but on the criminals.

You know the score. Every time some murder or shooting happens then the usual suspects show up and bemoan "the Liberal justice system" as if we would not have this problem if only we had more conservative judges and laws. I've posted before about the failures of the US prison cultures failure to effectively deal with crime. We don't need that here especially since all it will do is raise taxes or take money away from other things.

On the drug issue, mandatory and minimum sentences mean squat. Every one put in jail is quickly replaced by another waiting in the wings with no actual affect on crime or drug reduction. We would have better luck just granting immunity to drug dealers so long as they keep the related crime down.

Canada isn't a lawless society and our crime isn't anywhere near the epic levels that some people think it is.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... ystem.html

Believe it or not I am not for "lock em up and throw away the key" justice but sentences do need to properly reflect the crime. Criminals doing 3 or 4 years for murder is wrong no matter what side of the political spectrum you reside on. The 2 for 1 time also needs to be addressed because it is a tool used by lawyers to delay repeatedly so their client does even less time. As others have said, speed up the system, get these criminals into Federal Prisons where they can attend rehabilitation classes, none of which are available in remand centres.

[DerbyX]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Come on.. Gun Crime:

Liberal solution: Gun registry.

Conservative solution: Manditory criminal jail terms... and even still, the Liberals dragged their feet.

"mandatory". Note the red line under the word. That means you spelled it wrong.

The problem is you keep thinking that every conservative plan will reduce crime and when it doesn't you'll simply blame something else.

Crime happens and you blame the Liberals.

Change the government and you blame the laws from the Liberals.

Change the laws and you blame the judges appointed by the Liberals.

Change the judges but when that fails will you blame yourselves? Nope. You'll just find something else to blame because you absolutely believe that a truly "conservative" justice system will safeguard the citizens and punish the criminals.

[2Cdo]

Why not try the Conservatives approach as the Liberal one hasn't done it's job. It's partly why I refer to our system as a "legal" system versus a "justice" system. The way things are now, the criminals have all the rights and benefits, victims and honest citizens not so much.

[ridenrain]

All the people shot or involved in the shootings in Vancouver's latest drug war were on bail or on probation for gun related crimes. If those people were in jail, they wouldn't have been out shooting people.

The registry did nothing but manditory sentances would have stopped these people from comitting those shootings.

[DerbyX]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Believe it or not I am not for "lock em up and throw away the key" justice but sentences do need to properly reflect the crime. Criminals doing 3 or 4 years for murder is wrong no matter what side of the political spectrum you reside on. The 2 for 1 time also needs to be addressed because it is a tool used by lawyers to delay repeatedly so their client does even less time. As others have said, speed up the system, get these criminals into Federal Prisons where they can attend rehabilitation classes, none of which are available in remand centres.

Well its difficult to argue the reasons why for any of that since neither of us are lawyers and/or judges. To put it into perspective it would be like me and Mr C. arguing military tactics based on Call of Duty.

2 for 1 is obviously designed to reflect the fact that somebody is in jail for a crime they are not yet convicted of. While the defence may delay a trial in order for the accused to serve less time but then the guy pays for the lawyer and is still in jail.

What about the innocent? That's all semantics though. The bill amendments put the judgement back onto the judges which is their job. Personally I found both to be very reasonable amendments.

Don't you think that the people in the legal system actually do try and ensure people get a speedy trial? After all judges will throw cases out if he believes the crown is delaying on purpose.

As I have pointed out, I don't think our system is in such a state of disrepair. It can be improved like anything else but nothing Harper has proposed will do that. Its a law and order placebo designed to make people think something is being done when in fact it isn't (like the gun registry/ban).

[DerbyX]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Why not try the Conservatives approach as the Liberal one hasn't done it's job. It's partly why I refer to our system as a "legal" system versus a "justice" system. The way things are now, the criminals have all the rights and benefits, victims and honest citizens not so much.

I think the "Liberal" one has done its job. Lets not forget that Mulroney made laws and appointed judged too. Is crime worse then the 80s?

[DerbyX]

ridenrain ridenrain:

All the people shot or involved in the shootings in Vancouver's latest drug war were on bail or on probation for gun related crimes. If those people were in jail, they wouldn't have been out shooting people.

The registry did nothing but manditory sentances would have stopped these people from comitting those shootings.

Wouldn't change a damn thing since they would simply be replaced by others when they aren't around to assert their alpha status.

[2Cdo]

DerbyX DerbyX:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Why not try the Conservatives approach as the Liberal one hasn't done it's job. It's partly why I refer to our system as a "legal" system versus a "justice" system. The way things are now, the criminals have all the rights and benefits, victims and honest citizens not so much.

I think the "Liberal" one has done its job. Lets not forget that Mulroney made laws and appointed judged too. Is crime worse then the 80s?

I would argue it is but statistics will say it isn't. The reason I say that is the way the system is today crimes get pled down to lessor charges, which result in a skewing of real crime. Violent crime by kids is on the rise but again due to the YOA and it's follow up (I forget what it's called ) it again is pled down to a much lessor charge so as to not hurt little Billys self-esteem. The kids now it and laugh at it and the police.

If you honestly beleive we live in a safer society today then the blinders are working. How many people today leave their house or car unlocked? I even lock my shed now due to theft, boat trailers come with folding tongues that are lockable to avoid theft. Criminals have NO fear of being caught because the system works for them and not their victims. If you beleive otherwise, fine. I don't.

[gonavy47]

DerbyX DerbyX:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Why not try the Conservatives approach as the Liberal one hasn't done it's job. It's partly why I refer to our system as a "legal" system versus a "justice" system. The way things are now, the criminals have all the rights and benefits, victims and honest citizens not so much.

I think the "Liberal" one has done its job. Lets not forget that Mulroney made laws and appointed judged too. Is crime worse then the 80s?

YES!!!

[DerbyX]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

I would argue it is but statistics will say it isn't. The reason I say that is the way the system is today crimes get pled down to lessor charges, which result in a skewing of real crime. Violent crime by kids is on the rise but again due to the YOA and it's follow up (I forget what it's called ) it again is pled down to a much lessor charge so as to not hurt little Billys self-esteem. The kids now it and laugh at it and the police.

If you honestly beleive we live in a safer society today then the blinders are working. How many people today leave their house or car unlocked? I even lock my shed now due to theft, boat trailers come with folding tongues that are lockable to avoid theft. Criminals have NO fear of being caught because the system works for them and not their victims. If you beleive otherwise, fine. I don't.

The stats say we have less crime. In fact the biggest factor in crime is age demographics. Our population is aging and as it does crime is going down.

I'd have to check about youth crime but you can't blame the YOA unless you can provide evidence supporting it in all fairness.

I recall my youth and I laughed at cops, well MPs anyway. Range patrol were even worse because they always busted us for riding bikes five feet into the forest on dirt roads but that's neither here nor there.

I'd like to reference a couple of fictional movies because I think they reflect the beliefs at the time.

Class of 1984 and Magnum Force

OK, its not exactly scientific but bear with me. Class of 1984 (1982) deals with punks at a highschool. The kids get away with everything because the teachers can't touch the kids and the police are powerless. That was a concern 27 years ago and I doubt it was new. I don't think things have gotten worse.

Magnum Force (1973) deals with cops killing criminals because the justice system has failed. Just before Mitchel Ryans character officer Charlie Mccoy is gunned down he rants to Harry about how in society that "a hoodlum can kill a cop but if a cop kills a hoodlum then ...". A sentiment echoed today and that was 36 years ago.

I don't think society has gotten worse since then.

[DerbyX]

gonavy47 gonavy47:

DerbyX DerbyX:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Why not try the Conservatives approach as the Liberal one hasn't done it's job. It's partly why I refer to our system as a "legal" system versus a "justice" system. The way things are now, the criminals have all the rights and benefits, victims and honest citizens not so much.

I think the "Liberal" one has done its job. Lets not forget that Mulroney made laws and appointed judged too. Is crime worse then the 80s?

YES!!!

Crime rate lowest in 25 years

Didn't take long to bust that did it?

[gonavy47]

Did you actually read the article? Violent crimes have remained steady. Property crimes, b&e's,car thefts, etc. have decreased due to more and better security alarms! What has that got to do with your liberal system? By the way, my daughter's car was stolen three weeks ago!

[DerbyX]

Did you read it? They "think". The fact is that crime has gone down from the 80s. Your little "yes" was nothing less then you want to believe that under any conservative government crime goes down and under a liberal one crime goes up.

You can whine all you want but trying to link crime stats to the Liberals is a lie at best.

Your daughter had her car stolen 3 weeks ago?

Well that's clearly the fault of Harper and the CPC. Under the Liberals they would have had jobs and not needed to resort to stealing cars.

[ridenrain]

I don't ever recall a drug shooting spree this bad before in Vancouver. Isn't the Murder rate in Toronto at an all time high too?

2005 was supposed to be the worst with 80 murders but 2007 beat that with 84.