[romanP]

ridenrain ridenrain:

What's your point Boot?
All the legal products mentioned have safe use. To give credit to RomanP, even MDMA can be safe when prescribed by a doctor.

It doesn't need to be prescribed by a doctor. That would be the safest condition to use it in, but by no means is it necessary. I've had pure MDMA, it was a pretty mellow trip compared to the stuff that's usually got a bit of speed in it.

$1:

Right now, we are the leading manufacture of illegal, hardcore drugs.
Is that the Canada you want?

We're the leading manufacturer of one illegal drug, which I would hesitate to call "hardcore." Colombia still has the lead on cocaine production, and Afghanistan is still a pretty big heroin producer. Those are the two we really need to worry about, they're the drugs that destroy more lives than any of the other illegal drugs available. In Spain, they've seen the light and consider the use of addictive drugs to be a health problem, not a criminal problem. You might get fined for possession, but they'll sentence you to rehab rather than prison. They've seen a significant drop in heroin use since adopting a policy of treatment rather than incarceration.

[ASLplease]

what type of 'treatment' is available for drug smugglers and drug pushers?

[commanderkai]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Well, if our only concern is laws in OTHER countries, then we shouldn't lose any more sleep about exporting crystal meth than any legal but harmful substance. We trade with Iran and yet have great differences in our laws. You could say the same of heroin, which is legal for medical use in most countries: "If they want to use it properly or not, it's their concern, not ours, so let's go ahead and produce it and export it". It's a double standard.

Its not a double standard. It's a choice. We chose to make it illegal. They didn't. They KNOW the health risks and all other side effects involved. There is no double standard since we haven't taken away any of their choices. India made a choice to not only keep it legal, but to import the substance. We made the choice not to.

There is no hypocrisy either. The fact that we export other dangerous products does not matter. We do that legally, to other nations, with those nations knowing the risks. Those same "dangerous" products you mentioned, yes, even asbestos and uranium and military hardware...are used in Canada, (car brakes, nuclear power plants, and the military, respectively).

The fact you believe that exporting crystal meth, or ecstasy to nations that have the products banned, but also that the product is banned here in Canada, shows how lax our Customs and police forces are in this country. This is a blight, and not some mark of pride.

[ASLplease]

there is no hypocrisy with illegal drugs.

The criminals know the risks and choose to take their chances.

[Choban]

Proculation Proculation:

Choban Choban:

Given what goes into ecstasy to manufacture it I would say make it an automatic attempted murder charge for amyone caught manufacturing it, same for meth, lsd and anything else that the cops have to wear enviroment suits when disassembeling a lab.
Leagalization of Marijuana is one thing, ecstasy kills people, I've seen it happen.

Tylenols kill too.

Other than T3 or T4 people don't use tylenol as a recreational drug, and the codine based Tylenols are supposed to be prescription medication so...

[Choban]

Proculation Proculation:

It's just to say that because something can kill, it doesn't mean it's bad.

There are also drugs that do not kill at all that are illegal like LSD or shrooms.

LSD can cause phsycosis if used too much or in great quantities, another drug I don't use, mostly made of rat poison these days anyway.
Shrooms contain poison as well, thats what gets you high, so despite saying they don't kill they still aren't somthing I'd put in my body.

[ASLplease]

codene makes a terrible rec drug. it'll constipate you.

[Lemmy]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Its not a double standard. It's a choice. We chose to make it illegal. They didn't. They KNOW the health risks and all other side effects involved. There is no double standard since we haven't taken away any of their choices. India made a choice to not only keep it legal, but to import the substance. We made the choice not to.

There is no hypocrisy either. The fact that we export other dangerous products does not matter. We do that legally, to other nations, with those nations knowing the risks. Those same "dangerous" products you mentioned, yes, even asbestos and uranium and military hardware...are used in Canada, (car brakes, nuclear power plants, and the military, respectively).

The fact you believe that exporting crystal meth, or ecstasy to nations that have the products banned, but also that the product is banned here in Canada, shows how lax our Customs and police forces are in this country. This is a blight, and not some mark of pride.

Good arguments. As an aside, are you aware that Revenue Canada DOES collect income tax from drug traffickers? If they report their income, the tax office is perfectly happy. They don't care whether the source of income is legal or not.

[DerbyX]

ASLplease ASLplease:

there is no hypocrisy with illegal drugs.

The criminals know the risks and choose to take their chances.

There is a hypocrisy behind making them illegal. Its a personal choice. Its one thing to make laws concerning operating a car or heavy machinery under its influence or doing ones vocation if it can be impaired but the idea behind outlawing what is clearly a personal choice is just wrong.

People should clearly be educated about drugs and that education should include all the associated risks but then the choice is theirs. People choose to do dangerous things all the time. Some get hurt and some die. Some even have the audacity to sue others for the choices they make (such as the recent case involving the out of bounds skiers and people suing bars and casinos) but in the end the choice should belong to each person to make for themselves. Otherwise its no different then forcing women to wear burkhas in that respect.

[ASLplease]

this is Canada, noone is forced to become a criminal to survive. Criminal participation is strictly a personal choice.

[ASLplease]

Is it a liberal mentality to assume that "if I do it, then it cant possibly be wrong. Therefore it shouldn't be illegal. "?

[Choban]

Okay. Why do you think that? I haven't seen any reasoning behind this argument.

I think this because people will always go outof there way to get things for cheaper than what the government is selling it for, particularily as my example was with drugs like alcohol and tobacco, I see it being the same forleagal EX, Pot or whatever

That's because the tax on cigarettes is too high. I'm pretty sure the government is busy slowly pushing toward prohibition of tobacco. First it's high taxes, then you're not allowed to see what you buy before you buy it, then they take away flavoured cigars, next thing you know it'll be illegal to smoke anywhere.

Do you not think that they would tax leagal drugs???? and that people would go to black market street lever dealers to get untaxed drugs???

It wouldn't have street dealers selling much of anything. We wouldn't have people selling drugs on the street so much if the drugs were legal and regulated.

Again see above I already covered this argument

There most certainly is. The more pure a drug is, the harder it is to move, and the more profitable it becomes.

Sorry, there no profit on a street level for pure drugs, sure suppliers sell pure but as it moves through middle men and dealers it becomes less pure

Drugs don't have instincts or cravings for blood. Discretion is very important when it comes to drug use. There is a reason you shouldn't buy drugs from any random person on the street, and it's because you really don't know what you're getting. I've only ever bought drugs from or through people I know who got them from a trusted source.

I agree with your discretion statement, if your buyinbg Ex from a friend thats fine with me, does your friend make it, can they prove to you it's pure, I highly doubt it. The hit that killed Brian was from a friend at our school that we had bought from many times weather it was pot Ex or hash, never had a problem with the Ex we got from him before, all it took was 1 bad hit from a trusted source, your argument rings hollow in my ears, you plainly put too much trust in your drug dealer

[DerbyX]

We could start a whole new topic about people struggling to live below the poverty line to debate that but its off-topic. People do choose to live a life of crime when they deal drugs true but thats because its illegal. Legality would change that. People want that choice. Thats entire why prohibition failed. All the violence and crime was centered in the US and not Canada and that is no coincidence.

The government is choosing to make people criminals, people who's only crime is what they choose to imbile.

To connect to the gun debate, people also choose to become criminals when they violated the gun registry laws also but were they wrong?

[Choban]

Personally I don't care what they leagalize, I don't do pharmacuticals as recreational drugs. People can spout their basis at us for why it's not harmful of what ever, tell me that after one of your friends dies from using EX and see if you feel the same.

[Zipperfish]

romanP romanP:

ridenrain ridenrain:

What's your point Boot?
All the legal products mentioned have safe use. To give credit to RomanP, even MDMA can be safe when prescribed by a doctor.

It doesn't need to be prescribed by a doctor. That would be the safest condition to use it in, but by no means is it necessary. I've had pure MDMA, it was a pretty mellow trip compared to the stuff that's usually got a bit of speed in it.

$1:

Right now, we are the leading manufacture of illegal, hardcore drugs.
Is that the Canada you want?

We're the leading manufacturer of one illegal drug, which I would hesitate to call "hardcore." Colombia still has the lead on cocaine production, and Afghanistan is still a pretty big heroin producer. Those are the two we really need to worry about, they're the drugs that destroy more lives than any of the other illegal drugs available. In Spain, they've seen the light and consider the use of addictive drugs to be a health problem, not a criminal problem. You might get fined for possession, but they'll sentence you to rehab rather than prison. They've seen a significant drop in heroin use since adopting a policy of treatment rather than incarceration.

I think Canada is right up there with crystal meth production as well. Which is nasty stuff. Treatment rather than incarceration is all well and fine but you are dealing with two classes of criminals. The first one--addiction-based--makes decisions based on need for the drug. The second--organized crime--makes decisions on the economics of the situationa and the penalty for getting caught. Right now, in BC, the economics are good, precursors are readily available and teh penalty for getting caught is well within the cost of doing business. If that remains the case, factory prodcution of synthetic drugs will continue to increase.