[EyeBrock]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Right so that is why the NIS are taken into the RCMP detective units on exchanges. If they were not "real" investigators like you claim, why would they be entrusted with civilian cases?

CFNIS officers are given the same training as their RCMP counterparts in various forms of investigation. The NIS member I talk of had specialized in sexual assaults and theft, I would suspect he is the equal of any RCMP officer is the same place.

Why do you have such little faith in the NIS?

Utter bollocks sapper. The level of training and expertise of NIS and most MP's is well below that of a 4th Class Cst in a civilian Service.

The NIS may attend courses at CPC but they lack the knowledge, skills and abilities you would find in any civilian CIB unit. A guy with a years policing in Mississauga or Toronto will have investigated hundreds more incidents than the average MP at Trenton or Valcartier. I know what I am talking about on this.

The NIS will make stupid mistakes because they don't know any better. Soldiers never make great cops. In this day and age it would make more sense for the RCMP to conduct serious investigations, not the military police.

Unless this Capt coughs to murder 2, any decent civvy lawyer will find a multitude of denied rights, undisclosed evidence etc etc.
Investigations, especially murder investigations are not for amateurs, and the military police are amateurs.

[roger-roger]

So your saying the NIS doesnt get training or experience from being in RCMP units? I also know what I am talking about the NIS is made up from MPs but they get exstensive training that is equal to that of an RCMP officer. The experience may not be there but I will not say the NIS are use less or unfit as investigators.

[EyeBrock]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

So your saying the NIS doesnt get training or experience from being in RCMP units? I also know what I am talking about the NIS is made up from MPs but they get exstensive training that is equal to that of an RCMP officer. The experience may not be there but I will not say the NIS are use less or unfit as investigators.

They get 4 to 24 week secondments to the RCMP, and that is only some of them. The training in Ontario of a recruit lasts 10 months then they are considered a rookie. They then have to spend 3 years further development and training before becoming a 1st Class Cst.

You cannot compare the NIS to a civilian CIB. The workload and investigative expertise levels are hugely different.
I have been on courses with NIS guys, nice guys but couldn't investigate their way out of CPC.
The NIS is 'led' by commisioned officers with even less investigative experience. Basically just some guy out of RMC who has done the Security Officers course.

Compare that with the average civvy Service's CIB units.
A Det Constable will have had at least 5-8 years of humping calls on the road, and the investigative follow-ups involved in modern policing. Det Cst's are the ambitious cops, basically the cream of which ever Service they are in.
The team will be led by a Detective/Sgt who will have a minimum of 10 years service and will have been a Detective Cst. The Office will be run by a Det Sgt/Staff Sgt who will have at least 15 years in the job.


The expertise of the average civvy CIB far surpasses the best the NIS can send.

The military should let the guys with the right tools for the job do policing. There is a place for MP’s but they should stick to being the glorified security guards they really are and leave policing to the real police.

[roger-roger]

So by your reasoning we should abolish the MP trade and bring in the RCMP, since the military police are not police by any standard.

[EyeBrock]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

So by your reasoning we should abolish the MP trade and bring in the RCMP, since the military police are not police by any standard.

It would be a good idea to let the RCMP do any investigations of a serious nature.

The RCMP are a federal Service plus they have status, albeit ceremonial, as a 'line' cavalry regt.

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is a place within the CF for MP's but they shouldn't be investigating serious offences. They just are not up to the job.

Check this CBC special out. I have some knowledge of the players on this.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/shadowsofdoubt/timeline.html

[CommanderSock]

$1:

Since there has yet to be a conviction, there should not be a judgement.

I agree.

After due process then there will be a wider dabate.

[EyeBrock]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

$1:

Since there has yet to be a conviction, there should not be a judgement.

I agree.

After due process then there will be a wider dabate.

And a few charter challenges.

[StuntmanMike]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

So by your reasoning we should abolish the MP trade and bring in the RCMP, since the military police are not police by any standard.

I think I'm going to have to lean towards Eyebrock on this one. MP's are fine for their traditional role. Field duties, POW's, base security, and even locking up drunk drivers and hauling people out of the mess when tempers get heated.

But regardless of what kind of training is offered, I can't see how the average military investigator would ever get the experience in major case investigation that is needed to become competent in it. There's just not enough major crime in the military. That's not a bad thing, in fact it's a testament to the high level of discipline the Canadian army maintains.

Add to that the spectre of command interference that has been shown to affect some military investigations in the past, and it seems to me turning over such investigations to a credible, independent body like the RCMP would be a good solution.