[Gunbunny]

In living in a provence as Alberta I havn't had the exposure to the Unions that some of the onther people here have had. It is a interesting read.

My veiw on it is that the Unions are standing there with their hands out asking for more money from and for the Big 3 while the Big 3 are designing cars and trucks that are sub par. The Big three have been building vehicles on the planed obsolecence track for way too long. Why do you think that the Japanese and Germans are in not as bad a situation as the Big 3.

I have always maintianed that if Toyota or Nissan were to bring out a Diesel 3/4 ton version of there trucks I would rather have one of those, but for now I will stand by my GMC. All I have to be happy about is the fact that the Duramax is built by Isuzu

[ziggy]

I know lot's of peeps who would have bought a tundra if it had a diesel,me included.

[Shadow_Flanker]

One of the things that pisses me off about the auto bailout is what about the other industries that have suffered? It seems that the auto sector is the ONLY one worth anything in this country, but yet fuck everbody else.

Here in northern ontario our forestry sector went into the gutter, and our mining industries are shutting down operations. Many have lost their jobs, so where's our bailout?

Hey HaRdLy, what mine contractor you with?

While I am pissed about the auto sector crying for money, alot more people (non GM, Ford, Chrysler employees) will lose their jobs if the big 3 go under. So a bailout/loan should be given to them, but with MASSIVE restrictions.

[ziggy]

Shadow_Flanker Shadow_Flanker:

One of the things that pisses me off about the auto bailout is what about the other industries that have suffered? It seems that the auto sector is the ONLY one worth anything in this country, but yet fuck everbody else.

Here in northern ontario our forestry sector went into the gutter, and our mining industries are shutting down operations. Many have lost their jobs, so where's our bailout?

Hey HaRdLy, what mine contractor you with?

While I am pissed about the auto sector crying for money, alot more people (non GM, Ford, Chrysler employees) will lose their jobs if the big 3 go under. So a bailout/loan should be given to them, but with MASSIVE restrictions.

Agnico eagle's meadowbank gold project is still a go and as far as I know they are still hiring.They pay the flight's from anywhere in Canada.

[Shadow_Flanker]

ziggy ziggy:

Shadow_Flanker Shadow_Flanker:

One of the things that pisses me off about the auto bailout is what about the other industries that have suffered? It seems that the auto sector is the ONLY one worth anything in this country, but yet fuck everbody else.

Here in northern ontario our forestry sector went into the gutter, and our mining industries are shutting down operations. Many have lost their jobs, so where's our bailout?

Hey HaRdLy, what mine contractor you with?

While I am pissed about the auto sector crying for money, alot more people (non GM, Ford, Chrysler employees) will lose their jobs if the big 3 go under. So a bailout/loan should be given to them, but with MASSIVE restrictions.

Agnico eagle's meadowbank gold project is still a go and as far as I know they are still hiring.They pay the flight's from anywhere in Canada.

That's funny you mentioned that. I know of a laidoff FNX worker that he only wants to work in a gold mining operation. I guess gold is faring better than the other minerals.

[Scape]

Gunbunny Gunbunny:

My veiw on it is that the Unions are standing there with their hands out asking for more money from and for the Big 3 while the Big 3 are designing cars and trucks that are sub par. The Big three have been building vehicles on the planed obsolecence track for way too long. Why do you think that the Japanese and Germans are in not as bad a situation as the Big 3.

The SUV's and big cars make more profit for them short term and no matter what anyone says even though in the long term they are not sustainable they were still doing ok. It was the credit crunch that killed them as sales evaporated. People were still willing to buy the cars but could not get the credit as the banks refused to give out the money they were bailed out with because they were not ordered to by congress as a stipulation of the bailout. Rather it was just given to them in the hopes that they would dole it out as they deemed fit (more free market thinking). That only stoked the fires as what was not taken into account was that although productivity rose over the last decade real wages did not so the banks could be flush with cash but they would have no one to lend to as no one would be able to take the loan out to begin with. This has effect all car makers but the big three were the most exposed to the credit risk as they had more overhead in the form of pensions and the non-domestic plants have yet to have such overhead as they have not been in the USA that long. Bad management and sour unions are inconsequential in this context. The Unions could make care for free and it still wouldn't make a difference as the labour costs are only 8% of the total cost to make the car.

[ziggy]

Shadow_Flanker Shadow_Flanker:

ziggy ziggy:

Shadow_Flanker Shadow_Flanker:

One of the things that pisses me off about the auto bailout is what about the other industries that have suffered? It seems that the auto sector is the ONLY one worth anything in this country, but yet fuck everbody else.

Here in northern ontario our forestry sector went into the gutter, and our mining industries are shutting down operations. Many have lost their jobs, so where's our bailout?

Hey HaRdLy, what mine contractor you with?

While I am pissed about the auto sector crying for money, alot more people (non GM, Ford, Chrysler employees) will lose their jobs if the big 3 go under. So a bailout/loan should be given to them, but with MASSIVE restrictions.

Agnico eagle's meadowbank gold project is still a go and as far as I know they are still hiring.They pay the flight's from anywhere in Canada.

That's funny you mentioned that. I know of a laidoff FNX worker that he only wants to work in a gold mining operation. I guess gold is faring better than the other minerals.

Oh ya,tell him to google it(meadowbank)

[bootlegga]

hwacker hwacker:

bootlegga bootlegga:

hwacker hwacker:

herbie wrote: "Don't talk sense. They make $75 an hour and I only make $12
WAAAAHHHHHHH!!! WAAAHHHH!!!
[/rant]

Now back to reality... how the hell do they cut when the Big3 are carrying 100,000s of retiree pensions and the "Japanese" North American plants haven't been running long enough to even have a retiree?
Screw 100,000s of pensioners? And this is good somehow?"

Here let me give you a blunt hint (don't mistake this as a blunt hit)

In 1977, Honda announced that it would begin U.S. manufacturing with a motorcycle plant in Marysville. On Sept. 10, 1979, the first bike came off the line. The next day, Honda of America received this facsimile message from Tokyo headquarters: "Proceed with auto plant." The original USA 001 Accord is on display at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Mich.
Honda began U.S. sales operations in 1959, the company's first venture abroad. Honda's cumulative investments in U.S. operations exceeds $9 billion. Last year, the company purchased more than $17.6 billion in parts and materials from its 610 suppliers in North America.

10,000 Days and nobody has retired, Nice try but i don't think so.

Are you implying that one Honda plant in Marysville employs as much as ALL of any one of the Big Three? Because it would have to to create the huge backlog of retirees that the Big Three have. In actuality, it would have to employ hundreds of thousands of employees to match the Big Three. That's the flaw in your argument.

Anyone of the Big three has dozens of plants that have been open for decades longer than Marysville. Honda may have some retirees, but it is a pittance when compared to the hundred of thousands of retirees anyone of the Big Three has to pay out on a regular basis.

Can you not read ?


"Japanese" North American plants haven't been running long enough to even have a retiree?

"a" infers to one ?

The big 3 are at fault for the mess they are in, period end of sentence. The unions are part of that if they go under I could care less, I make my money off of the Jap plants and they seem to have a vehicles that make them money on every sale.

Congratulations, you have proven that Honda has a few retirees (maybe even a a couple thousand), but your own quotation also proves Herbie was also correct, because the Big Three have tens, if not hundreds of thousands of retirees, meaning it costs them far more than the Japanese auto companies.

[Shadow_Flanker]

That's very true bottlegga. The big three have far more people on pension than on their current payroll combined. But which of the two is costing the big three more though, the pension payments or the health costs of all the pensioners?

[bootlegga]

Shadow_Flanker Shadow_Flanker:

That's very true bottlegga. The big three have far more people on pension than on their current payroll combined. But which of the two is costing the big three more though, the pension payments or the health costs of all the pensioners?

Probably the health care, but either way, it is a huge expense the Japanese car makers don't have.

Frankly, if the CAW isn't willing to budge, then I say screw them and find someone else to make $35/hour to assemble cars. By the same token, all those expensvie executive perks and huge salaries better get dumped too.

[HaRdLy]

Shadow_Flanker Shadow_Flanker:

Hey HaRdLy, what mine contractor you with?

I was working for SGS Lakefield Research, as a metallurgical technician.

[herbie]

$1:

Made in the USA Honda Accord Celebrates 25th Anniversary

That's the biggest problem. Dumb twats who can't read, do math or think straight have been running the US and Canada. Granted, GM, Ford and Chrysler too.

Time to follow the US voters and toss them out in a big way.

[Shadow_Flanker]

HaRdLy HaRdLy:

Shadow_Flanker Shadow_Flanker:

Hey HaRdLy, what mine contractor you with?

I was working for SGS Lakefield Research, as a metallurgical technician.

Have you tried looking at INCO or Xtrata for work?

[Shadow_Flanker]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Shadow_Flanker Shadow_Flanker:

That's very true bottlegga. The big three have far more people on pension than on their current payroll combined. But which of the two is costing the big three more though, the pension payments or the health costs of all the pensioners?

Probably the health care, but either way, it is a huge expense the Japanese car makers don't have.

Frankly, if the CAW isn't willing to budge, then I say screw them and find someone else to make $35/hour to assemble cars. By the same token, all those expensvie executive perks and huge salaries better get dumped too.

$35/hour? Hell I know alot of people who will be happy to do it for $25/hour, and with half the benefits. That's what pisses me off about the UAW/CAW, those unions are there for the best interest of the workers, but they'll rather have their members lose their jobs instead of making conscessions.

As for the executives. No bonuses period. And as for their huge salaries, why should I pay you half a million just because you say so? All execs start at 100k/year, and if they want raises, they get it through hard work and merit. Pensions, none. They make way more than enough in salary to make their own pension. Perks? Just like their raises, get it through hard work and merit.

[ziggy]

The high seniority guys are running the show.

This is where the greed factor kicks in.
I've seen it many a time. The older and more established the union....the worse it is.