[hurley_108]

Tricks Tricks:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Tricks Tricks:

So pretty much every country in the world is going to have a deficit, but it's the conservatives fault. Makes sense to me.

The c/Conservatives are just getting their comeuppance here. Liberal and NDP governments at the federal and provincial levels have been raked over the coals for deficit spending during economoic downturns. Now it's the Conservatives' turn to be vilified for doing the right thing. I've got no sympathy at all.

So the conservatives did it, so it's ok.

Where have I heard that? Oh right.

No. Continuing services and ensuring that the economy can function in down times is one of the principal roles for government. If that demands deficit spending, then deficit spending is the right thing to do, whether the government is l/Liberal or c/Conservative. But the conservatives in this country have been attacking Trudeau and Rae and all the rest of them for decades for doing this (and all the while ignoring the fact that governments around the world were doing the same thing). Now the shoe is on the other foot. I'm almost happy the Conservatives won because now we can watch them squirm.

[hurley_108]

Tricks Tricks:

So they raised spending and lowered taxes when we had a huge surplus trying to even it out, and should be blamed for not seeing that the world was going to go into a recession. Can I use your crystal ball for my next exam? Don't get me wrong, I agree they should have done one or the other. But to fault them for a deficit right now is pretty stupid, regardless of what party it is.

I donno, the word "bubble" has been used for a couple years at least to describe the US housing market, the collapse of which seems to be the big driver behind this crash. Perhaps people can be forgiven for miscalculating the probable magnitude of the current crisis, but anyone that didn't know it was coming was deluding themselves.

[hurley_108]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Well, compare them to Alberta's Conservatives then. Ours built in a hedge, and though oil has fallen from $147/barrel to $50, we still have a surplus (down from $8 billion to $2 billion, but a surplus nonetheless), despite axing health care premiums and added spending.

Now look at the federal Conservatives. They went from a $14 billion surplus last year under Flaherty, to $1 billion this year and a $4 billion deficit next year. If $18 billion (BTW, that's the size of our defence budget next year) disappearing from the federal budget doesn't shock you, then nothing will.

How low will oil go, though? Could we see a retreat as far as the sub-$20/barrel range we were in just a little over a decade ago?

[Tricks]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Well, compare them to Alberta's Conservatives then. Ours built in a hedge, and though oil has fallen from $147/barrel to $50, we still have a surplus (down from $8 billion to $2 billion, but a surplus nonetheless), despite axing health care premiums and added spending.

Now look at the federal Conservatives. They went from a $14 billion surplus last year under Flaherty, to $1 billion this year and a $4 billion deficit next year. If $18 billion (BTW, that's the size of our defence budget next year) disappearing from the federal budget doesn't shock you, then nothing will.

That doesn't surprise me at all. The did a lot of tax cutting and are trying to get the military what they need. That's expensive, especially when they have been ignored for the past 20+ years. Plus this recession. I'm trying to find some middle ground, seems I'm the only one. They shouldn't have cut taxes as much as they did. Flat out.

[Tricks]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

No. Continuing services and ensuring that the economy can function in down times is one of the principal roles for government. If that demands deficit spending, then deficit spending is the right thing to do, whether the government is l/Liberal or c/Conservative. But the conservatives in this country have been attacking Trudeau and Rae and all the rest of them for decades for doing this (and all the while ignoring the fact that governments around the world were doing the same thing). Now the shoe is on the other foot. I'm almost happy the Conservatives won because now we can watch them squirm.

So conservatives were asshats when this happened to the liberals, so that means liberals the right to do it to the conservatives. Yet again where have I heard that? Oh that's right, that's what the left leaners whine about Ridenrain doing.

[Tricks]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Tricks Tricks:

So they raised spending and lowered taxes when we had a huge surplus trying to even it out, and should be blamed for not seeing that the world was going to go into a recession. Can I use your crystal ball for my next exam? Don't get me wrong, I agree they should have done one or the other. But to fault them for a deficit right now is pretty stupid, regardless of what party it is.

I donno, the word "bubble" has been used for a couple years at least to describe the US housing market, the collapse of which seems to be the big driver behind this crash. Perhaps people can be forgiven for miscalculating the probable magnitude of the current crisis, but anyone that didn't know it was coming was deluding themselves.

Think anyone could predict that it was going to throw almost everyone's economy into a tailspin?

[DerbyX]

Tricks Tricks:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Well, compare them to Alberta's Conservatives then. Ours built in a hedge, and though oil has fallen from $147/barrel to $50, we still have a surplus (down from $8 billion to $2 billion, but a surplus nonetheless), despite axing health care premiums and added spending.

Now look at the federal Conservatives. They went from a $14 billion surplus last year under Flaherty, to $1 billion this year and a $4 billion deficit next year. If $18 billion (BTW, that's the size of our defence budget next year) disappearing from the federal budget doesn't shock you, then nothing will.

That doesn't surprise me at all. The did a lot of tax cutting and are trying to get the military what they need. That's expensive, especially when they have been ignored for the past 20+ years. Plus this recession. I'm trying to find some middle ground, seems I'm the only one. They shouldn't have cut taxes as much as they did. Flat out.

The military wasn't ignored for 20 years. They had their budget cut and slashed by Mulroney first and then by Chretein who was forced to do something.

During that time the Liberals were also still paying off items like the Halifaxes.

The money really went in post 9/11. In fact take a look at the purchases they made including the new helos starting to make it to the ships.

They also cut taxes time and again.

Face it. The Liberals beat the Conservatives hands down when it comes to economic preformance.

[DerbyX]

Tricks Tricks:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Tricks Tricks:

So they raised spending and lowered taxes when we had a huge surplus trying to even it out, and should be blamed for not seeing that the world was going to go into a recession. Can I use your crystal ball for my next exam? Don't get me wrong, I agree they should have done one or the other. But to fault them for a deficit right now is pretty stupid, regardless of what party it is.

I donno, the word "bubble" has been used for a couple years at least to describe the US housing market, the collapse of which seems to be the big driver behind this crash. Perhaps people can be forgiven for miscalculating the probable magnitude of the current crisis, but anyone that didn't know it was coming was deluding themselves.

Think anyone could predict that it was going to throw almost everyone's economy into a tailspin?

Yes. In fact I told you this very thing over a year ago. Harper knew full well it was coming but decided winning an election was more important. Thats what makes his last election call so egrarious. He knew the economy was going bad yet still he broke his own election law and wasted 300 billion and was "forced" to offer more tax cuts to buy support.

thats not responsible govt and its certainly not helping the military when he sqaunders money he could use for them.

[Zipperfish]

Tricks Tricks:

So pretty much every country in the world is going to have a deficit, but it's the conservatives fault. Makes sense to me.

This is not limited to this Harper government in this global slowdown. This is the legacy of Conservatvies in Canaad and Republicans in the US over the last twenty or thirty years. They have simply shown themsleves to be incapable of responsible budget management. And they have proved themselves incapable of taking responsbility for thier failure to do so. Look in this thread, for example, at how many are blaming not the Conservatives for creating this projected deficit, but the Liberals for not stopping them. It boggles the mind!

[bootlegga]

Tricks Tricks:

That doesn't surprise me at all. The did a lot of tax cutting and are trying to get the military what they need. That's expensive, especially when they have been ignored for the past 20+ years. Plus this recession. I'm trying to find some middle ground, seems I'm the only one. They shouldn't have cut taxes as much as they did. Flat out.

That's essentially what I've been saying all along too.

[QBall]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Paul M<artin had to clean up after the Mulroney mess. And big surprise--another Conservative government, and we're back to deficit spending.

Yeah, clean up Mulroney's mess like get rid of the free trade agreement and the GST. Oh wait, that's right, those were the reasons the Liberals were able to realize surpluses during the nineties (because creating policies of doing nothing for 13 years would certainly create prosperity). If anything Mulroney had to clean up Trudeau's mess.

[DerbyX]

QBall QBall:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Paul M<artin had to clean up after the Mulroney mess. And big surprise--another Conservative government, and we're back to deficit spending.

Yeah, clean up Mulroney's mess like get rid of the free trade agreement and the GST. Oh wait, that's right, those were the reasons the Liberals were able to realize surpluses during the nineties (because creating policies of doing nothing for 13 years would certainly create prosperity). If anything Mulroney had to clean up Trudeau's mess.

Wrongo. Trudeau ran deficits at a time when all the western govts were and they were fighting their own recession and oil crisis. The Liberals then were certainly more interested in social spending then balancing the budget thats for sure.

Mulroney took over during the boom 80s. He promised fiscal responsibility as a measure against the growing Liberal deficit. Not once did he run anything less then a 15 billion deficit and handed the Libs one of over 30.

The GST came in years before the Libs took over and still they ran deficits for 3 years.

It was smart bdugetting and spending cuts that was the key. They created the budgetary policies that allowed them to run surpluses, surpluses that were always budgetted for and designed to pay down the debt.

[RUEZ]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Face it. The Liberals beat the Conservatives hands down when it comes to economic preformance.

If the Liberals were faced with what the Conservatives are faced with right now I'd give you that.

[DerbyX]

RUEZ RUEZ:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Face it. The Liberals beat the Conservatives hands down when it comes to economic preformance.

If the Liberals were faced with what the Conservatives are faced with right now I'd give you that.

What? Inheriting a stellar economy and a 13 billion dollar surplus?

Sure the economy is in a turmoil but it seems to be mostly hitting Ontario. NFLD is offically a have province for the first time ever and Alberta's economy isn't tanking even with oil dropping below $60. Nationally we aren't facing an unemployment crisis even if a specific industry is.

Its Harpers policies and promises that have put us into deficit territory. Decreased taxes and increased spending are what the experts are blaming. Speculation about whether or not the Liberals would be running a deficit is exactly the pattern of Harper and his core supporters simply not accepting responsibility. Harper made the promises. Harper made the budget. He deserves the hits and criticism and its hypocracy that the same people vilifiying both Dions and Laytons platform as "deficit magnets" now not only excuse Harper but actually blame the Liberals for not somehow stopping him from implementing his own budget.

C'mon.

[Tricks]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Tricks Tricks:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Well, compare them to Alberta's Conservatives then. Ours built in a hedge, and though oil has fallen from $147/barrel to $50, we still have a surplus (down from $8 billion to $2 billion, but a surplus nonetheless), despite axing health care premiums and added spending.

Now look at the federal Conservatives. They went from a $14 billion surplus last year under Flaherty, to $1 billion this year and a $4 billion deficit next year. If $18 billion (BTW, that's the size of our defence budget next year) disappearing from the federal budget doesn't shock you, then nothing will.

That doesn't surprise me at all. The did a lot of tax cutting and are trying to get the military what they need. That's expensive, especially when they have been ignored for the past 20+ years. Plus this recession. I'm trying to find some middle ground, seems I'm the only one. They shouldn't have cut taxes as much as they did. Flat out.

The military wasn't ignored for 20 years. They had their budget cut and slashed by Mulroney first and then by Chretein who was forced to do something.

During that time the Liberals were also still paying off items like the Halifaxes.

The money really went in post 9/11. In fact take a look at the purchases they made including the new helos starting to make it to the ships.

They also cut taxes time and again.

Face it. The Liberals beat the Conservatives hands down when it comes to economic preformance.

If you are going to try and convince me that the Liberals did what was needed for the military, then you're actually insane, because they didn't. Neither did or has the conservatives. Both haven't done well. The Liberals also had the advantage of an extremely prosperous time in the world. The Conservatives have world wide recession, and they are only just now saying they will have a deficit. They haven't done a stellar job, but saying the Liberals did when it was handed to them (and I'm not talking early on) then that's a clear bias.

P.S. Four vs. one? Beauty