[romanP]

martin14 martin14:

romanP romanP:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Poor Mr. Li. He's surely all torn up with grief over what happened and maybe if he gets in front of the right judge he'll get the therapy he needs and then can return to society in a few years to live the life he really deserves. Putting him in jail just won't serve any productive purpose.

I hope you're being serious. I'm pretty surprised you even said this. This is the only comment in this thread that actually addresses the issue of what happened.

Li had a psychotic break, and a particularly bad one. I imagine he does feel pretty awful right now, after realising what he's done. He should given asylum and proper psychiatric treatment, he was insane while he was killing the guy next to him.

Roman, you amaze me.. you would seriously just forgive this guy,
pump him full of drugs and pyscho babble, and let him walk out ?

I never said anything about letting him walk anywhere. He isn't just some scum that got on a bus and decided he was going to kill people. He thought people were following him, and took random, inexplicable trips. He clearly had some really bad schizophrenic problems going on in his head. We can't presume to know what he was thinking when he got on the bus, but I highly doubt that it was anything he wanted to be thinking. He probably didn't even realise what he had done until well after police got him off the bus.

[romanP]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

(I'm glad a few people can see that my OP wasn't the least bit serious.)

It's really unfortunate that you weren't. But I guess I shouldn't expect a macho idiot to show any sort of understanding of mental health issues. Just like every other last person in this thread, your response is nothing but emotional, unreasonable nonsense.

[romanP]

Choban Choban:

So now they will do an evaluation and find out he has mental health problems and he will not go to jail as he will supposidly not be responsable for his actions due to a mental health issue.
Unfortunately we cannot force people to be medicated.

Just because he doesn't go to prison doesn't mean he doesn't end up kept in a mental hospital, which is where he should be.

[romanP]

It's a good thing most of you are not in charge of our justice system, or there would be no justice in it. I'm rather shocked that only one other person who has responded to this thread realises that Li was not in a stable mental condition when he did this, and everyone else just wants to play tough cop and act like this was some sort of gang-related crime.

You're all so very lucky to not have to live with a mental condition that makes you hallucinate unwillingly, without any drugs at all, and causes extreme paranoia, hearing voices telling you to do bad things, and not even being able to necessarily control all of your actions.

Instead, you believe in eugenics.

[Lavics]

$1:

I never said anything about letting him walk anywhere. He isn't just some scum that got on a bus and decided he was going to kill people. He thought people were following him, and took random, inexplicable trips. He clearly had some really bad schizophrenic problems going on in his head. We can't presume to know what he was thinking when he got on the bus, but I highly doubt that it was anything he wanted to be thinking. He probably didn't even realise what he had done until well after police got him off the bus.

holy shit batman!!

We should really get you on our force!! You seem to know A - Z, and the accused hasnt even said 1 word yet!.. AMAZING!.

[Yogi]

romanP romanP:

Choban Choban:

So now they will do an evaluation and find out he has mental health problems and he will not go to jail as he will supposidly not be responsable for his actions due to a mental health issue.
Unfortunately we cannot force people to be medicated.

Just because he doesn't go to prison doesn't mean he doesn't end up kept in a mental hospital, which is where he should be.

To what end?

Keep him sedated and mindless forever? What's the point in that?

Analyze him and give him therapy in the hopes of 'curing' him. To what end?

After he is 'cured', then put him in prison for the rest of his life? To what end?

Perhaps you 'see' him as being 'rehabilitated' enough to be released back into society? Not my society! My loved ones and myself as well, have every reason to fully expect to be able to go about our lives without having to worry whether 'this' POS and others of like mind who ARE caught, ever walking among us again! So what is the point of trying to 'rehabilitate' such mental miscreants?

[bootlegga]

tritium tritium:

bootlegga bootlegga:

If you insist...

Yes, this case is pretty much cut and dried, but so what? This was one of the most repugnant crimes I've heard of in recent memory, yet I still say they should throw him in a deep, dark hole and let him rot until he dies.

I am against capital punishment period. It doesn't prevent murders and all it does it harken back to ancient times. Many people here prattle on about how primitive the Muslims are, but don't bat an eye at capital punishment. Hypocritical? Definitely!

Oh yes such a fine arguement.

Hanging a man for the murder of another, vs. the stoning to death of a young girl for going out with another man.

Yes, I will defend an eye for and eye. You kill human being, you get a rope round your neck.

I don't agree with Muslims who stone a young girl to death for cheating on the husband. Please....

So you're choosing a 2500+ year old religion over a 1500+ year old religion as the correct attitude? Let's take a quick look at Christianity then...

You might want to the Old Testament sometime. Along with an eye for eye, it also orders STONING people to death for a wide variety of sins, including Adultery (a woman cheating on her husband).

Deut 22.22 “If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman and the woman; so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

Leviticus 20:10 “And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death”.

Apparently, it's not only the evil Muslims who are into stoning...


Thanks for proving my point on hypocrisy!

[llama66]

All Religion is stupid, how many wars have been fought in the name of God or Allah?

Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed -GEN 9:6

By this logic the cycle would never die, everyone would be obliged to kill and in turn be killed.

[cheryl08]

I understand that if Li had a mental disorder, it would be unfair to punish him accordingly given that the mens Rea of the offence was lacking. However, to make him NCR wouldn't be fair either. He should at least be charged with some form of criminal negligence, there are so many mentally unstable individuals who refuse medication knowing they pose a violent threat to society if they have a violent outburst.
They should not be exempt on mental illness alone.

[Gunnair]

romanP romanP:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

(I'm glad a few people can see that my OP wasn't the least bit serious.)

It's really unfortunate that you weren't. But I guess I shouldn't expect a macho idiot to show any sort of understanding of mental health issues. Just like every other last person in this thread, your response is nothing but emotional, unreasonable nonsense.

Uh not all.

[Gunnair]

cheryl08 cheryl08:

I understand that if Li had a mental disorder, it would be unfair to punish him accordingly given that the mens Rea of the offence was lacking. However, to make him NCR wouldn't be fair either. He should at least be charged with some form of criminal negligence, there are so many mentally unstable individuals who refuse medication knowing they pose a violent threat to society if they have a violent outburst.
They should not be exempt on mental illness alone.

That's an intersting point. The negligence of not seeking help when indications are there that some form of mental health issues are surfacing should be a form of negligence. That being said, the question of who determines it is important. Unfortunately, this is one of the downsides of the charter that do not allow forced treatment for those who are not capable of determining whether they need it or not.

[saturn_656]

cheryl08 cheryl08:

I understand that if Li had a mental disorder, it would be unfair to punish him accordingly given that the mens Rea of the offence was lacking.

Mens Rea isn't always required for one to be charged, found guilty, and sentenced.

[llama66]

actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

Apparently, it's not only the evil Muslims who are into stoning...

Uhhh.... when was the last time you heard of Jews and Christians, or any other group, stoning people for the crimes you listed??? These laws were written over 3 000 yrs ago for people who lived 3 000 yrs ago. Islam adopted Levitican laws from Judaism when Mohammad John Smith (E)L. Hubbard created Islam. Certain Muslim societies use this form of punishment, to this very day.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-upda ... n-20080115

$1:

Iran's Penal Code prescribes execution by stoning as the penalty for adultery by married persons. It even dictates that the stones are large enough to cause pain, but not so large as to kill the victim immediately.

$1:

Despite official claims that stonings have been halted - including a moratorium issued by the Head of the Judiciary in 2002 - several have taken place, with the latest only last year. Ja'far Kiani, a man, was stoned to death for adultery on 5 July 2007 in the village of Aghche-kand, near Takestan in Qazvin province. There are fears that Mokarrameh Ebrahimi, with whom he had two children, may suffer the same fate. She is in Choubin prison, Qazvin province, apparently with one of their children. A woman and a man are also known to have been stoned to death in Mashhad in May 2006.

The majority of those sentenced to death by stoning are women. Women are not treated equally with men under the law and by courts, and they are also particularly vulnerable to unfair trials because their higher illiteracy rate makes them more likely to sign confessions to crimes they did not commit.

[llama66]

Iran has since suspended that law, albeit very recently.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iZ7 ... 1O5Iok-CMQ