[stemmer]

martin14 martin14:

you are right Dog, but Kosovo becoming independent will be only

a bad idea among many bad ideas in this region.

Kosovo as such has no claim to be independent.. as we have no need to support it.

these small events are dangerous from the point that they could spark something bigger..

The US needs to gets its people out of Serbia, soon.. US Steel has a major plant in Serbia, that could be next..

and imagine if the marines in the embassy shoot a Serb in self defense.

Its no problem to imagine the entire embassy staff being executed.. now

THAT could be a problem..

I hope the USA never backs down from thugs or punks... At least that is my opinion of GWB...Now the Clintons would be a different story...as they believe in the UN's agenda and diplomacy...

It's truly sad a few of you are lamenting about the old Yugoslavia under Marshall Tito...

[martin14]

$1:

It's truly sad a few of you are lamenting about the old Yugoslavia under Marshall Tito...

yeah Tito was cool, he could tell EVERYONE to piss off.. the Soviets and the Americans. and he kept Yugoslavia stable, even a little prosperity.

stemmer, can you provide some historical base for Kosovo to separate, cause i cant find any.

or should any group of people be allowed to create a country wherever and whenever they like ??

[stemmer]

The people of Kosovo do not wish to be part of Serbia. It's called having control over your own destiny. The 13 colonies a long time ago decided against being a part of England.

[stemmer]

How is keeping Kosovo within Serbia by force a good thing IF they do not wish to be a part of Serbia? This very scenario is not unlike other captured states being coerced into a bigger political union (Roman Empire, USSR, British Empire, Ottoman Empire, etc)...

Bush is perhaps one of the few leaders who truly understand democracy. The will of the people.

[ShepherdsDog]

No, they aren't comparable. One, the United States was a colony of Great Britain, not an actual part of it. This would be akin to Essex, Sussex, East Anglia or Northumbria breaking away from the UK. Second, what is happening in Kosovo is based solely on ethnicity, rather than a perceived violation of traditional rights(they still viewed themselves as Englishmen to the bitter end), as was the American colonists beef. If this is allowed then every disgruntled little group will try the same trick. Serbia has every right to quash this, as does Russia to quash the insurrection Chechnya.

[fifeboy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

camerontech camerontech:

Johnny_Utah Johnny_Utah:

Scape Scape:

This is not small or trivial. This was large and orcastrated.

There's reports Russia is behind this which is possible..

I doubt it, I'm pretty sure the people behind this are "pissed off Serbs"

If a country supported the breakup of your nation you'd be pissed at them too.

Precisely. When we entered the war in 1998/1999 we entered on the wrong side.

Albanians immigrated into Yugoslavia in large numbers after WW2 to escape from the Maoist Albanian regime and then when communism collapsed they decided to claim Kosovo for Albania.

This current "independent" Kosovo will soon annex itself to Albania to prove what I'm saying. And if you look at the proposed Kosovo flag you'll see it is an Albanian flag derivative.

I'd be pissed if the UN had California secede and the new California flag had a Mexican eagle device on it to make it clear the alignment and intentions of the new 'nation'.

Kosovo independence is a crime. I'm siding with the Serbs and the Russians on this one.

Oops, how can I say this, I agree with BartSimpson. This part of the world requires a great deal of tact and decorum. Siding with one side or the other for political reasons will only lead to trouble. Breaking up Yugoslavia into a dozen little "Princedoms" will only lead to instability in Southern Europe. The U.S. was wise to empty its Embassy. Who cares if the building is burnt, whats important is that we did not have to hear that Marines fired on and killed a bunch of protesters. If the building was full of American staff thats what would have had to happen.

[martin14]

and what about the will of the people of Serbia.. or that counts for nothing..

[ShepherdsDog]

Especially the Serbs that live in the newly declared Kosovar republic. They have the right to remain Serbians and attach their territory to what remains of Serbia

[martin14]

oh god that sounds too much like the separation wars I had in Quebec

when I lived in Montreal... Townships and west Quebec will stay in Canada..


But i agree Dog.. not yet though.. Kosovo isnt truly separated yet.. give that one a few weeks.

[stemmer]

[BartSimpson]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

So much for the pro Western Gov't that was in power in Serbia. The West fucked up on this one big time. This could possibly turn into a larger regional conflict if the Albanians living in Kosovo province try and amalgamate with Albania proper.

That being their plan, will we stand by NATO as it protects Albania's annexation of Kosovo? Because it was precisely the agitation of Albanians in Kosovo who wanted Albania to annex Kosovo that caused the Serbs to want to kick them out 16 years ago.

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

The Serbs aren't going to stand for it and rightly so. If they decide to use their military to preserve their territorial integrity, we (Westerners) need to mind our own buisness.

We had an interesting discussion about this in one of my classes. Most of the Taiwanese supported Kosovo for the obvious reason, they see a parallel between this and their conflict with the PRC and also the fact that the PRC doesn't support Kosovo's declaration. They seem surprised that I didn't support it as well, until I explained why it would be hypocrtical for a Canadian, interested in preserving Canada, to do so. Kosovo is neither a legitimate or democratic state, and should remain a part of Serbia.

[OPP]

There sure was order when the USSR was around. I've yet to see the strategical value of Kosovo, though. I'll admit I don't know much about former Jugoslavia and the subsequent wars and the political strife that ensued with NATO and Russia.

So.. what's the deal? Why the U.S/Russia cold war antics?

[OPP]

stemmer stemmer:

How is keeping Kosovo within Serbia by force a good thing IF they do not wish to be a part of Serbia? This very scenario is not unlike other captured states being coerced into a bigger political union (Roman Empire, USSR, British Empire, Ottoman Empire, etc)...

Bush is perhaps one of the few leaders who truly understand democracy. The will of the people.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHhahahahHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAAA½§1§½!!!!!!

[stemmer]

OPP OPP:

There sure was order when the USSR was around. I've yet to see the strategical value of Kosovo, though. I'll admit I don't know much about former Jugoslavia and the subsequent wars and the political strife that ensued with NATO and Russia.

So.. what's the deal? Why the U.S/Russia cold war antics?

How about the 6 million or so Stalin executed? How about the political prisoners in the gulags? Yeah, I'm sure they enjoyed this order...