[BartSimpson]

Tricks Tricks:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

That's the difference between Canada and America - there are NO premium medical services. All services are billed the same, no matter who does it or where it happens.

The premium in this case is that Rand Paul is going to go to the front of the line because he's paying for that privilege. He'll also get a private room.

The rest of you have to wait your turn just like you do for hip surgery, knee replacements, and pretty much any advanced imaging services.

Where is your proof he's going to the front of the line?

[Tricks]

Right, you don't have any. That's what I thought.

[BartSimpson]

Tricks Tricks:

Right, you don't have any. That's what I thought.

Here's my proof:

United States Senator Rand Paul.

[Robair]

Almost four months later... I dunno if he's jumping any queues.

Also, not sure they bill Americans any more than they bill Canadian health care. Don't think they would as the law is written to prevent preferential treatment.
Being a Republican senator likely doesn't get much mileage anywhere in the great white north these days.

[Tricks]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Tricks Tricks:

Right, you don't have any. That's what I thought.

Here's my proof:

United States Senator Rand Paul.

No one gives a shit

I mean really, what's he going to do? Call our healthcare system slavery again?

[Tricks]

Robair Robair:

Almost four months later... I dunno if he's jumping any queues.

Also, not sure they bill Americans any more than they bill Canadian health care. Don't think they would as the law is written to prevent preferential treatment.
Being a Republican senator likely doesn't get much mileage anywhere in the great white north these days.

There's nothing stating they can't charge more for it. Doesn't mean they did, but they likely did. However, I'd say getting preferential treatment because you paid, i.e. jumping the queue, considering that's illegal in Canada, would land them in hot water if it came to be known.

[housewife]

Tricks Tricks:

It does, it's right there on the hospital's website.

$1:

Ontario’s Hospital Insurance Plan (OHIP) covers all costs to Ontario residents for public ward rate hospital accommodation and physician services.

https://www.shouldice.com/faqs/

It doesn’t say that OHIP pays the non-mesh surgery just that OHIP pays...

When I fired my doctor I found out she did some paperwork wrong and the only way to get my papp done was to pay for it. It was a follow up after a bad one so needed to be done. So 25 bucks for that and the possibility of the lab sending me a bill for an additional 15. In my hours on the phone with unserviceable Ontario and OHIP. Unservice Ontario is about as helpful as a train derailment one of them told me that the only thing to do was go to the newspapers or write my representative. It took three different people at OHIP to find one that could give me the info I needed he also said that OHIP pays a lot less for the visit. Anyway they don’t reimburse so back to the office more people more crap before they finally cut me a cheque. End result the knowledge that what OHIP pays and what we pay is very different.

[Tricks]

housewife housewife:

Tricks Tricks:

It does, it's right there on the hospital's website.

$1:

Ontario’s Hospital Insurance Plan (OHIP) covers all costs to Ontario residents for public ward rate hospital accommodation and physician services.

https://www.shouldice.com/faqs/

It doesn’t say that OHIP pays the non-mesh surgery just that OHIP pays...

The non-mesh surgery is literally called the Shouldice technique. It was developed by the previous owner of the clinic. They do the other way, but rarely. You can pretty easily find people in Canada having it done and OHIP covering it. So yes, it's covered by OHIP.

http://www.yorkinfo.ca/record/NKT1566

Fees None - covered by OHIP ; Medical and surgical services covered by OHIP * Medical and surgical services covered by OHIP * Semi private accommodations $240.00 per night

$1:

When I fired my doctor I found out she did some paperwork wrong and the only way to get my papp done was to pay for it. It was a follow up after a bad one so needed to be done. So 25 bucks for that and the possibility of the lab sending me a bill for an additional 15. In my hours on the phone with unserviceable Ontario and OHIP. Unservice Ontario is about as helpful as a train derailment one of them told me that the only thing to do was go to the newspapers or write my representative. It took three different people at OHIP to find one that could give me the info I needed he also said that OHIP pays a lot less for the visit. Anyway they don’t reimburse so back to the office more people more crap before they finally cut me a cheque. End result the knowledge that what OHIP pays and what we pay is very different.

I have no idea what your point is.

[BeaverFever]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

$1:

Paul is scheduled for surgery at Shouldice Hospital, which touts itself as a world leader in "non-mesh hernia repair."

Avoiding mesh in a hernia surgery is pretty damned impressive.

Also note that this is a PRIVATE hospital that has nothing to do with socialist medicine.

Wrong, despite being private, the hospital receives government funds and treats patients covered under the “socialist” insurance.

[martin14]

Robair Robair:

I have no idea if they can charge Americans more for medical treatment. I kind of doubt it though, as the whole idea behind not being able to charge more than Canada reimburses is to maintan equal access to health care... ...maybe they can charge foreigners more. I don't know.

Foreign university students pay what, 3 times more than citizens ?
If you want to rent a car in Canada with a foreign DL, you pay double.
Pretty sure they are charging more for Americans et al.

Tricks Tricks:

However, I'd say getting preferential treatment because you paid, i.e. jumping the queue, considering that's illegal in Canada, would land them in hot water if it came to be known.

Here's a thought: there are two queues.

Really difficult, I know.

[N_Fiddledog]

Here's the National Post, 2012:

Pioneering for-profit Shouldice hernia clinic sold for $14-million

The for-profit hernia-repair surgery clinics has been sold to a private health corporation, ending a family-owned dynasty that played a unique role in Canada's health-care system

$1:

A pioneer among for-profit surgery clinics in Canada has been sold to a private health corporation for $14-million, ending a family-owned dynasty that played a unique role in the country’s government-dominated health-care system.

The Shouldice Clinic has for 65 years offered one basic service — hernia-repair operations — serving as a model for efficient, stand-alone surgery operations that have since multiplied in both the private and public sectors.

When the Ontario government barred most for-profit clinics that provide treatment covered under medicare, it allowed Shouldice to keep running, and still pays for thousands of patients a year to get operations there at taxpayers’ expense.

The hospital is being purchased by Toronto-based Centric Health, which owns several other private surgery clinics in Ontario, B.C., Alberta and Manitoba, as well as rehabilitation centres, home care services and pharmacies.

The two families that own Shouldice have for the last several years looked for an appropriate, health-focused company that would be interested in taking over the clinic and continuing to provide hernia operations, said Daryl Urquart, a member of one of the families and spokesman for the hospital.

Giving up responsibility for its patients is “emotionally draining, stressful and, from a family-involvement point of view, very sad,” he admitted, but said the sale offers better prospects for Shouldice in coming years.

“It’s an opportunity to secure a much more solid future with an organization that has deeper pockets and deeper access to human resources across this country,” said Mr. Urquart.

Another private-health entrepreneur, the head of Toronto’s MedCan executive clinic, recently suggested that the Shouldice was suffering because of restrictions imposed by the province that prevented it from offering the latest, minimally invasive hernia operations, which allow patients to go home the same day. Shouldice patients generally stay overnight and some of its revenue comes from charging for semi-private rooms. Like public hospitals, it also receives yearly funding from the province, and medicare fees for services offered by its doctors.

Mr. Urquart repeated earlier assurances that Shouldice is seeing as many patients as ever — about 7,500 a year — with a wait time of about two months, more than 90% of its customers covered under medicare. The business has “maintained its viability” with losses in some recent years, and profits in subsequent years that made up for the red ink, he said.

The Ontario Health Ministry must still approve the deal, but it has been kept informed of negotiations and appears likely to give the green light, said Mr. Urquart.

Founded in 1945 by Dr. Edward Shouldice, the hospital built an international reputation with what was seen as an innovative surgical technique for fixing hernias, and an efficient business model for treating patients quickly and effectively, outside of the more costly and infection-prone setting of general hospitals.

Similar stand-alone clinics have since cropped up that specialize in orthopedic and eye surgery and other operations, some private and some non-profit. Ontario and other provinces have recently indicated they want to encourage more such operations.

Mr. Urquart said the Shouldice experience shows that for-profit companies can play a useful role in the government-funded health-care system.

https://nationalpost.com/health/pioneer ... 14-million

[N_Fiddledog]

So...

It's a private, for profit company. It's been in business since 1945. It accepts most national and international insurance plans - public and private. You can also pay cash. What's the problem? What's the point as concerns Rand Paul?

Is it this?

$1:

When the Ontario government barred most for-profit clinics that provide treatment covered under medicare, it allowed Shouldice to keep running, and still pays for thousands of patients a year to get operations there at taxpayers’ expense.

Because I'm not sure how Rand Paul becomes a socialist for dealing with a private, for-profit company that also deals with socialized insurance plans.

The company offers a specialized service for a price. The service comes with a glowing international reputation and has had one for over 65 years. It was not a reputation that was created by a socialist system. International customers seek it out and are willing to pay for it either through cash or their own private insurance plan. That's capitalism. No socialism is required here.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Myself, I don't see why Canadians are not proud of the fact that one of your hospitals is the best in the world at something instead of making some dumbass political point that doesn't even apply!

The show Nova on PBS recently did a show on human organ transplantation, and organ donation. It was filmed in the #1 transplant hospital in North America, the University of Alberta hospital in Edmonton. They even interviewed the Doctor that did my Nephrectomy, because he is very well known in the Kidney Transplant field.

martin14 martin14:

Here's a thought: there are two queues.

Here's a thought, clinics have always been private, but provincial laws mean they must bill the government system for any treatment covered by the system; and are free to offer services not covered for a fee. My GP offers extra things, like nutrition courses, and courses on managing diabetes that are not covered but I can take them for a fee.

[housewife]

Tricks Tricks:

The non-mesh surgery is literally called the Shouldice technique. It was developed by the previous owner of the clinic. They do the other way, but rarely. You can pretty easily find people in Canada having it done and OHIP covering it. So yes, it's covered by OHIP.

http://www.yorkinfo.ca/record/NKT1566

Fees None - covered by OHIP ; Medical and surgical services covered by OHIP * Medical and surgical services covered by OHIP * Semi private accommodations $240.00 per night

$1:

When I fired my doctor I found out she did some paperwork wrong and the only way to get my papp done was to pay for it. It was a follow up after a bad one so needed to be done. So 25 bucks for that and the possibility of the lab sending me a bill for an additional 15. In my hours on the phone with unserviceable Ontario and OHIP. Unservice Ontario is about as helpful as a train derailment one of them told me that the only thing to do was go to the newspapers or write my representative. It took three different people at OHIP to find one that could give me the info I needed he also said that OHIP pays a lot less for the visit. Anyway they don’t reimburse so back to the office more people more crap before they finally cut me a cheque. End result the knowledge that what OHIP pays and what we pay is very different.

I have no idea what your point is.

[/quote]

I am impressed that OHIP pays for the non-mesh surgery.

My point is OHIP pays less than 10 bucks but I was charged 25 for the appointment. So apparently there already is a double standard in our healthcare.

The hours on hold and the idiots is just normal. The big piss off though is the fact that there are people who don’t have 25 - 40 extra bucks in their budget who wouldn’t get the test which may end up costing OHIP more in the long run cause it’s an early detection test.

[Robair]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

It's a private, for profit company. It's been in business since 1945. It accepts most national and international insurance plans - public and private. You can also pay cash. What's the problem? What's the point as concerns Rand Paul?

Because I'm not sure how Rand Paul becomes a socialist for dealing with a private, for-profit company that also deals with socialized insurance plans.

Rand Paul has likened a single payer system, like affordable care act, to slavery. He is very much against it. That's what a private clinic operating in a single payer system has to do with Rand Paul.

Nobody is calling him a socialist. We're calling him a hypocrite.