[JaredMilne]

martin14 martin14:

Well, that was remarkably short, compared to your normal Laurentian posts.

Laurentian? You think that's all I write about? I didn't realize Alberta was Laurentian in origin.

I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm genuinely curious.

martin14 martin14:

So, you're saying that if Coulten was a white guy trying to steal stuff,
the gun would have seen a white guy and refused to go off accidentally ?
Because that's pretty racist, coming from you.

Uh, no. What I'm saying is that it's telling that even a conservative guy like Brad Wall, who isn't exactly a social justice warrior, felt the need to call out the bigotry he was seeing directed towards Indigenous people in the Boushie case.

So if there was no bigotry involved, why did Wall say what he did?

martin14 martin14:

Well now at least we starting to discover the real source of the problem...... the Federal government, and it's proxies in the Provincial government.

And what do you think that actually does to people when their lives have been controlled like that for decades on end, told that their heritage is worthless and that they suck overall as human beings?

martin14 martin14:

It is very much worth noting the 2 people ITT who are the most

'more money, more money' types..... are government employees.

Very telling indeed.

You mean about wanting to make sure Indigenous communities are funded equitably with the rest of us?

Think what you want, but it's also telling that all the political support work I've done in elections over the last decade or so has been for conservative-leaning candidates, and I've repeatedly ripped on what I consider foolish spending on things like public art in St. Albert. Believe me or don't, it's up to you.

[llama66]

http://torontosun.com/news/national/mal ... -jury-pool

Its kinda like not voting and then proceeding to bitch about the election. If Indigenous people were subpoenaed and chose not to participate in the trial, and then to bitch about the "lack of justice" when you could have done something. That's appalling, egregious even.

Simply put, the Crown dropped the ball and Justice System operated as intended. They could not prove the mens rea.

actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea.

Both have to be present for a crime to be committed. Its not perfect, but that's why we say justice is blind.

[Freakinoldguy]

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

You mean about wanting to make sure Indigenous communities are funded equitably with the rest of us?

Sorry but in alot of cases they're better off than non natives.

$1:

Thinking hard about history can be a useful exercise, if incorrect assumptions are reformed. This was one goal of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s report on residential schools, which, in early June, published a 388-page summary of its forthcoming final report.

Others have already debated some assumptions in the report — healthy, given that history should never be left to past or present politics. Here, I will deal with popular beliefs about funding for First Nations people in Canada — something I have some familiarity with, having traced such numbers back to the mid-20th century.

An analysis of the money is critical for four reasons.

First, in some cases, it corrects the record. The commission claims there is currently inequity in education funding for First Nation students on reserve vis-a-vis students in provincial public schools. Wrong. National on-reserve funding per student in the 2010/11 school year amounted to $13,524, compared to $11,646 per student, on average, in provincial public schools across Canada.

Second, if it’s assumed that the Canadian public, through their tax dollars, do not spend enough on aboriginal matters (a chronic claim from Assembly of First Nations Grand Chief Perry Bellegarde), an improper focus on funding and not outcomes is often the result.

For example, as my colleague Ravina Bains points out, existing reserve governments often determine how elementary and secondary education dollars are spent. That becomes a problem when parents want to send their child off-reserve, as they may be on the hook for the education cost. At that point, “parents have no recourse but to pay for their children’s education privately,” as Bains has written, “or, against their wishes, send their children to the on-reserve school.”

Surely in pursuit of better education outcomes, in 2015, reserve parents should not be instructed by reserve governments about which school their kids must be enrolled in, with the not-so-subtle threat of withdrawn funding if parents don’t follow politicians’ wishes.

Third, there has been no shortage of attempts to ameliorate poor outcomes on reserves and elsewhere with increased taxpayer funding.

Data gleaned from federal archives and Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada show that spending per registered First Nations person jumped to $9,056 per person by 2012, from $922 in 1950 (the figures are adjusted for inflation, so this is an apple-to-apple comparison). That’s an 882 per cent per capita increase in real terms.

In comparison, all federal program spending on all Canadians (including First Nations ) rose to $7,316 per person in 2012, from $1,504 per capita back in 1950 — a 387 per cent increase in real terms.

Taxpayers have been increasingly generous to Canada’s aboriginal people. Although, for the record, I’m not asserting 1950s funding was optimal; the point is that growth in per capita spending on specific First Nations programs and transfers has outpaced the general growth in general program spending for everyone. Also, remember that aboriginal Canadians also benefit from that general spending, in addition to aboriginal-specific spending.

Lastly, Canadians have often been generous through the tax system in ways not required by treaty or the Constitution. For example, some government programs exist that provide tax-funded benefits solely for First Nations people, which are unavailable to the general population.

For example, in 2013/14, Health Canada spent almost $1.1 billion on supplementary benefits such as dental care, vision care and pharmaceutical drugs for eligible First Nations and Inuit Canadians. That coverage is not required by treaties or by the Constitution. And most other Canadians must spend out-of-pocket or buy insurance for such items.

It is impossible to argue successive governments have not sought to address some lagging social conditions for selected aboriginals by using tax dollars. They have. That fact should raise many questions about, for example, a lack of choice in education or the remote location of many reserves. Those two realities alone might better explain the plight of aboriginal Canadians in the 21st century.

http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/column ... -in-canada

Now, if that funding doesn't get to the rank and file natives it isn't our problem because if Trudeau is to be believed the natives apparently don't want any interference from Ottawa when it comes to spending Canadian's tax dollars.

[herbie]

Jeez you guys sound amazingly like our town council and Tory Senators on pot legalization. Instead of getting on and deciding how you proceed, you want more time to yatter on about if it's good or bad if they should've or shouldn't have.
If you're a gov't worker or a private one and you're going to have to work with natives or on native land, you're gonna end up taking a seminar like this. It's 2018, that's the way it is.
I'd advise you to listen when you sit through one rather than cross your arms and stick out your bottom lip like Trump at the G7.

[BartSimpson]

Just a few thoughts here:

In the USA the reservations were little more than minimum security prisons all the way into the 1970's.

Native Americans often escaped from the rez and then claimed Mexican names because if they were found out as natives then they would be returned to the rez. See, the Bureau of Indian Affairs would have gone under if the natives left the rez.

Life on the reservations was difficult because the BIA stifled any attempts to start businesses and they also made it a bitch to start schools. My grandmother supported a tribe in New Mexico and I remember when she died finding the hand-written thank you letters from the people she helped. We also found a shitload of silver and turquoise jewelry that had been sent to her over the years. I don't know if she bought the jewelry or if it was a thank you gift. In any case she helped these people with a school and to the best of my knowledge she never went there to visit.

I only say this because absent such charity there would have been no school at all.

In California I remember the Auburn Rancheria of Wintun Indians (now called the United Auburn Indian Community) rez along Auburn-Folsom Road being a stunning example of poverty in the midst of otherwise prosperous ranch lands.

The Rancheria was denied access to phone lines and electrical lines that ran across their lands up until 1989. They were likewise denied access to clean water from an aqueduct that also ran across their land.

And when the US Supreme Court made their epic ruling in 1987 that natives could have casinos if they wanted I didn't begrudge these people a thing.

Now they live in beautiful homes, their kids go to rez schools which are among the best schools in the USA, and then their kids go on to Ivy League colleges on full-ride scholarships. And even better, instead of being bitter about their past they invest in their surrounding communities and provide things like ambulances, fire trucks, and etc. when needed. They're great people.

But none of this would have happened if the government at all levels were not forced to leave them the fuck alone.

I say all of this because you know all those billions you people pour into the reserves to assuage your collective sense of guilt?

Read carefully: You're not helping.

You want to help these people? Then stop helping them. Leave them the fuck alone. Let them learn, work, and prosper without some pinheaded motherfucking do-gooder with a Master's in Social Work come into their reservations with the latest trendy idea on how to 'fix' these people.

Leave. Them. ALONE.

And they'll have some hard times but then they'll prosper as they start businesses and enterprises without any interference from your nanny-state government.

Yes, they'll sell cigarettes and liquor without paying any taxes to your provinces or the feds. Yes, they may even opt to run casinos.

LET THEM.

It's far less expensive than what you do right now. Trust me, we know.

[martin14]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

You want to help these people? Then stop helping them. Leave them the fuck alone. Let them learn, work, and prosper without some pinheaded motherfucking do-gooder with a Master's in Social Work come into their reservations with the latest trendy idea on how to 'fix' these people.

Leave. Them. ALONE.

^^^^^^ this.

[BRAH]

martin14 martin14:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

You want to help these people? Then stop helping them. Leave them the fuck alone. Let them learn, work, and prosper without some pinheaded motherfucking do-gooder with a Master's in Social Work come into their reservations with the latest trendy idea on how to 'fix' these people.

Leave. Them. ALONE.

^^^^^^ this.

Yep, it's time to stop the taxpayer funded gravy train which means federal and provincial Governments need to stay the Fuck Out allowing First Nations to decide their own future. Whether it's making deals with real estate developers, oil & gas companies to run a pipeline or extract resources on their land, holding their corrupt leaders accountable etc.

[Freakinoldguy]

BRAH BRAH:

martin14 martin14:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

You want to help these people? Then stop helping them. Leave them the fuck alone. Let them learn, work, and prosper without some pinheaded motherfucking do-gooder with a Master's in Social Work come into their reservations with the latest trendy idea on how to 'fix' these people.

Leave. Them. ALONE.

^^^^^^ this.

Yep, it's time to stop the taxpayer funded gravy train which means federal and provincial Governments need to stay the Fuck Out allowing First Nations to decide their own future. Whether it's making deals with real estate developers, oil & gas companies to run a pipeline or extract resources on their land, holding their corrupt leaders accountable etc.

The only way that will ever happen is if like you say, we stop funding the natives because as long as they're getting taxpayer dollars along with billions worth of free stuff not included in any treaties we have a right to expect our money is being spent in a manner we find acceptable. Otherwise, we're just perpetuating one of the largest unregulated welfare programs in the world.

The only two institutions I know of that put up with being told to go fuck themselves when it comes to accountability for the money they hand out is the Canadian Gov't and the UN. What a coincidence.

[JaredMilne]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Sorry but in alot of cases they're better off than non natives.

Now, if that funding doesn't get to the rank and file natives it isn't our problem because if Trudeau is to be believed the natives apparently don't want any interference from Ottawa when it comes to spending Canadian's tax dollars.

There's plenty of interference and oversight from Ottawa. Remember the Auditor General's report I cited about the dozens of reports every First Nation is expected to file every year, many of which aren't even read by Ottawa bureaucrats?

And as for the funding issue...

$1:

Health Canada officials were sent scrambling after a landmark human rights ruling last year that found the federal government discriminated against First Nation children by underfunding services for First Nation children, according to internal correspondence provided to CBC News.

The Health Canada documents reveal the department knew it faced serious shortfalls in the level of health services provided to First Nations children and was unprepared to implement changes prescribed by the human rights ruling.

The Canadian Human Rights Tribunal ruled in January 2016 that Ottawa discriminated against First Nation children by underfunding on-reserve child welfare services and by failing to apply Jordan's Principle, which places the needs of First Nations children ahead of jurisdictional disputes between governments.

At the time of the ruling, Health Canada's data showed on-reserve First Nation children faced a massive gap in health services compared with what was available provincially, according to the internal correspondence obtained by NDP MP Charlie Angus through the Access to Information Act.

The correspondence said Health Canada wasn't equipped to assess children with special needs, and faced gaps in mental health services and health support for children in care.

"There are important barriers in access to services for First Nations children and youth living with certain medical conditions," said one draft Health Canada memo sent on Jan. 29, 2016, by Kristin Doull, with the population and wellness division of the First Nations and Inuit Health Branch.

And this...

$1:

The infrastructure reports show that, between the 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 fiscal years, just 25 percent of identified water infrastructures costs on First Nations were funded by the federal government, then under Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Aboriginal Affairs Minister Bernard Valcourt.

A leaked briefing note from 2016 reveals that, even as water infrastructure fails, government can be slow to act.

Two civil servants — one current, one former — from Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada (INAC) confirmed the funding issues, and spoke candidly about the department’s infrastructure strategy for First Nations, especially when it comes comes to drinking water, and described a flawed and broken process.

“The huge issue no one talks about at a technical level is how poorly run the department is and the enormous impact that has on First Nations,” says one current civil servant who requested anonymity as they were not authorized to speak on the record.

“There are absolutely good people working for INAC but it is a total disaster at the management and executive levels. Plus the department has no idea how to work in a respectful, cooperative partnership with Indigenous communities.”

Veldon Coburn, who worked for more than three years in the department’s community infrastructure branch under the previous Conservative government, describes a department with scant resources trying to run programs while still trying to “keep the lights on.” It was a system where, as government cut-backs dug into operational budgets, staff had their salaries paid by money earmarked for infrastructure projects.

So the government's own data and civil servants admit the funding problems.

BRAH BRAH:

Yep, it's time to stop the taxpayer funded gravy train which means federal and provincial Governments need to stay the Fuck Out allowing First Nations to decide their own future. Whether it's making deals with real estate developers, oil & gas companies to run a pipeline or extract resources on their land, holding their corrupt leaders accountable etc.

Um, you do realize that there are Treaty obligations to be fulfilled, right? And those same Treaties were what enabled Canada to have legal access to Indigenous lands, and to use the resources that financed so much of Canada's growth? And those same rights were implicitly recognized by the Treaties, are both enshrined in the Constitution and recognized by the courts over and over again? And how, in various parts of Canada such as most of B.C., there are in fact no actual Treaties in place?

And just for the record, we have Treaty rights too-the fact that Canada is our home, rather than someplace else. We have a right to live here and share the land...but it's a reciprocal obligation.

llama66 llama66:

However at some point, there needs to be a solution.. a viable solution to the plight of Indigenous people in Canada. Part of that solution will require both sides to let go of some things and realize looking to the past is no way to move into the future.

Certainly-and that's why I have more than a few questions about various elements of Indigenous politics, as I alluded to in an earlier post. But that means us having to recognize some things too, namely the rights of Indigenous people and the fact that getting them to assimilate and simply be like the rest of us is not a viable option.

[llama66]

Why's that? So long as they want to remain apart, they will be discriminated against. Creating and maintaining a two tier citizen system never ends well.

[herbie]

See what I mean?
Our local hand picked by Council "pot committee" will report Sept 30th, having argued in circles about the same shit instead of addressing what is, Council will meet Oct.3rd and cry "Baw!!! Two weeks isn't enough time... we need more time..." and some store across the street from town limits will already be up and running.
Might use that empty building on reserve land, one block from the High School. That'd be justice.

You don't get to ignore their status. Regardless if you agree or like that or not. That's all there is to it.

[llama66]

Maybe it’s time to dissolve the Indian Act. It’s extreme, but it’s clearly not benefiting anyone. Two tier citizenry has never worked. Look at the south and South Africa as examples. The Indian act was designed to keep the indigenous folks down. Dissolve it, recognize the reserves as “special municipalities” and give them the same allotment of monies other municipalities get, hell, long term it’ll benefit the old reserves, as the provinces will have to bring their infrastructure up to the same level as other municipalities. The indigenous people can keep their culture and language like every other ethnic group has in Canada, the only thing thing that ceases is the Free money ends, I’m fine with them paying a reduced or no income tax, and getting subsidized post secondary. The time has come for us all to merge and leave the past in the past.

[martin14]

llama66 llama66:

Maybe it’s time to dissolve the Indian Act. It’s extreme, but it’s clearly not benefiting anyone. Two tier citizenry has never worked. Look at the south and South Africa as examples. The Indian act was designed to keep the indigenous folks down. Dissolve it, recognize the reserves as “special municipalities” and give them the same allotment of monies other municipalities get, hell, long term it’ll benefit the old reserves, as the provinces will have to bring their infrastructure up to the same level as other municipalities. The indigenous people can keep their culture and language like every other ethnic group has in Canada, the only thing thing that ceases is the Free money ends, I’m fine with them paying a reduced or no income tax, and getting subsidized post secondary. The time has come for us all to merge and leave the past in the past.

Daddy T had the chance to do that in 1968. He didn't. Huge mistake.

I agree 100%, the biggest problem is the Indian Act itself.

However, it will now be very difficult to change, because the SJWs have stirred
the froth so much they have convinced the Indians that "special municpalities"
have now become "special independent countries" of 500 people,
with land claims that cover all of BC (and then some) and most of Canada.

And of course taking away the White Guilt money is just a non starter at this point.

In many ways, there is no solution to the problem.

[llama66]

martin14 martin14:

llama66 llama66:

Maybe it’s time to dissolve the Indian Act. It’s extreme, but it’s clearly not benefiting anyone. Two tier citizenry has never worked. Look at the south and South Africa as examples. The Indian act was designed to keep the indigenous folks down. Dissolve it, recognize the reserves as “special municipalities” and give them the same allotment of monies other municipalities get, hell, long term it’ll benefit the old reserves, as the provinces will have to bring their infrastructure up to the same level as other municipalities. The indigenous people can keep their culture and language like every other ethnic group has in Canada, the only thing thing that ceases is the Free money ends, I’m fine with them paying a reduced or no income tax, and getting subsidized post secondary. The time has come for us all to merge and leave the past in the past.

Daddy T had the chance to do that in 1968. He didn't. Huge mistake.

I agree 100%, the biggest problem is the Indian Act itself.

However, it will now be very difficult to change, because the SJWs have stirred
the froth so much they have convinced the Indians that "special municpalities"
have now become "special independent countries" of 500 people,
with land claims that cover all of BC (and then some) and most of Canada.

And of course taking away the White Guilt money is just a non starter at this point.

In many ways, there is no solution to the problem.

You are right, there is no 'win' to this situation. But at *some* point the IA needs to repealed. The minute we start treating them like normal citizenry, is the minute they will start acting like normal citizenry.

At least I hope that how that works.

As for the SJW's do they not realize all they are doing is deepening the schism that exists between the non-indigenous and indigenous people that already exists in Canada?

[PublicAnimalNo9]

herbie herbie:

Also the whole crew got a half day on cultural sensitivity when no one but me would "put some goddam rag over their head" just to service inside a temple.

So uh, do you "cross up" and carry a bible when you have to service a church?
Is "putting some goddam rag over your head" your idea or do the temple masters expect it?