[PublicAnimalNo9]

Lemmy Lemmy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

andyt andyt:

Well, if it was such a crime, you would think there would be a stampede of opposition members to report it, with all the hystrionics from them. I mean is was physical molestation, according to Peter VanLoan. You would think he would do his civic duty and report that. Or what's her face, that felt so violated she had to leave the chamber - again, you'd think for the sake of violated women everywhere she would rush down to the cop shop to report this.

Even the CBC noted the incident as an assault...technically.

$1:

Ottawa lawyer Michael Spratt agreed, saying that while, technically, it's an assault, the legal system calls for discretion and restraint when it comes to applying that law so it would likely not be concerned with incidents as trivial as Trudeau's grabbing of Brown's arm.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin- ... -1.3590357

We've been over this. There is more to a crime than the description of the act in the Criminal Code. There is no crime without criminal intent. If I come up and tap you on your shoulder to get your attention, have I committed assault?

If I come up to you and grab you by the arm without your consent and start dragging you behind me, that isn't assault?
Your equivalencies are pathetic. Just like your little old lady crossing the street comparison.

[andyt]

So, let Gordon Brown file a criminal complaint. You want to moan about the "assault" committed, but the "victim" obviously doesn't see it that way. Rightly so, because he'd be laughed out of the house. He seems content to let the house decide what Trudeau's punishment should be.

[Lemmy]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Police don't just charge you with assault unless someone presses charges. Except in domestic violence cases.

Uhh, Wrong. There is no such thing as "someone pressing charges" in Canada. The police decide whether to charge or not.

You need to go and take an Introduction to Law class with OTI 'cause you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[Lemmy]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

If I come up to you and grab you by the arm without your consent and start dragging you behind me, that isn't assault?
Your equivalencies are pathetic. Just like your little old lady crossing the street comparison.

Go take that course and we'll talk. When you've done that, you can man-up and admit you were wrong.

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

There is no such thing as "someone pressing charges" in Canada. The police decide whether to charge or not.

In BC the Atty General (or is it the Solicitor General) presses charges, the police decide whether to forward the complaint to the AG. The police would be unlikely to do so in the Trudeau case unless the "victim" did file a complaint. Only in domestic violence cases must the complaint be forwarded even if the victim doesn't file a complaint.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Police don't just charge you with assault unless someone presses charges. Except in domestic violence cases.

Uhh, Wrong. There is no such thing as "someone pressing charges" in Canada. The police decide whether to charge or not.

Absolutely incorrect.

A private citizen can lay charges. If you report the incident to police and they opt not to press charges, you have the right as a private citizen to do so yourself which then flows into a process to handle these types of cases.

[Lemmy]

We can take this into greater and greater detail if we want, but the general point is that we don't need a complaint by anyone for the police to lay a charge. Of course, a complaint is usually the first step in an investigation. But the decision to lay a charge is the cops' alone. After doing so, the Crown may decide the case isn't winnable and decide not pursue those charges in court, but there's still no such thing as a citizen "pressing charges" in Canada. Only cops "press" charges.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

We can take this into greater and greater detail if we want, but the general point is that we don't need a complaint by anyone for the police to lay a charge. Of course, a complaint is usually the first step in an investigation. But the decision to lay a charge is the cops' alone. After doing so, the Crown may decide the case isn't winnable and decide not pursue those charges in court, but there's still no such thing as a citizen "pressing charges" in Canada. Only cops "press" charges.

https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on. ... cution.php

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Lemmy Lemmy:

We can take this into greater and greater detail if we want, but the general point is that we don't need a complaint by anyone for the police to lay a charge. Of course, a complaint is usually the first step in an investigation. But the decision to lay a charge is the cops' alone. After doing so, the Crown may decide the case isn't winnable and decide not pursue those charges in court, but there's still no such thing as a citizen "pressing charges" in Canada. Only cops "press" charges.

https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on. ... cution.php

You really had to dust off that relic, eh? We also have a law that businesses must have hitching posts for horses. Cite me a case in the last 20 years where a private citizen has presented an information to court that has resulted in a prosecution? Just one. You won't find one because COPS LAY CHARGES, not people.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

You really had to dust off that relic, eh? We also have a law that businesses must have hitching posts for horses.

Cite me a case in the last 20 years where a private citizen has presented an information to court that has resulted in a prosecution? Just one. You won't find one because COPS LAY CHARGES, not people.

This isn't about prosecution. Nice try to spin.

You made a very specific statement.

$1:

There is no such thing as "someone pressing charges" in Canada. The police decide whether to charge or not.

That comment is false.

Took about 2 seconds on Google to find examples of people using Private Prosecution...including once against Julian Fantino.

[BeaverFever]

Lemmy Lemmy:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Police don't just charge you with assault unless someone presses charges. Except in domestic violence cases.

Uhh, Wrong. There is no such thing as "someone pressing charges" in Canada. The police decide whether to charge or not.

How did someone from Oshawa get that wrong? I guess when you're sober, it's tough to remember exactly how all those arrests went down.

[BeaverFever]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Lemmy Lemmy:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Police don't just charge you with assault unless someone presses charges. Except in domestic violence cases.

Uhh, Wrong. There is no such thing as "someone pressing charges" in Canada. The police decide whether to charge or not.

Absolutely incorrect.

A private citizen can lay charges. If you report the incident to police and they opt not to press charges, you have the right as a private citizen to do so yourself which then flows into a process to handle these types of cases.

The only reason we're talking about charges is because the right-wingers here are saying Justin clearly committed assault and the only reason that he's not rotting in a cell right now is because the other guy was the bigger man and didn't "press charges".

Which is false. If it was CLEARLY assault, then the police would have at least opened an investigation, if not laid charges.

While there may be grounds for someone to say "oh, he took my hand without my consent, that's assault!" First, it doesn't become assault unless and until the 'victim' makes that claim and the authorities agree. Since we don't have anyone making that claim, we don't have an assault.

[Thanos]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

The only reason we're talking about charges is because the right-wingers here are saying Justin clearly committed assault and the only reason that he's not rotting in a cell right now is because the other guy was the bigger man and didn't "press charges".

Only one "right winger" here even said what happened was an assault. The rest of us pretty much didn't care at all. I even said that anyone who would seek charges over an incident that lame is the biggest kind of wuss imaginable. andy made more out of JT's apparent control-freak attitude problem that led to the incident happening to begin with than anyone else here and if andy's a right winger then the term has no meaning at all anymore.

[ShepherdsDog]

It's all those voices he hears.

[Freakinoldguy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

It's still a private function, Einstein. Unlike the Wild Rose incident which was in the Legislature where there are standing customs.

Liberals and Conservatives are free to insult each other, that's not the problem. The problem is that there are certain public functions and customs where that's not appropriate due to common decency like rising for a guest in the Legislature.

An insult to start your reply. How appropriate.

It's really unfortunate that you just can't bring yourself to admit that Bob Rae is nothing more than a political troll who should be taught to show some respect for his betters which pretty much includes every politician in Canada.

Customs or not, anytime you invite the press to your "private function" it technically isn't private anymore and becomes part of the public record much like a City Council meeting or a session of the Osbornes. But, whether you consider it private or not isn't the issue. It's the fact that Bob Rae knowing that the press was present showed such poor judgement and acted like a petulant grade schooler, that it makes a person wonder just how he was ever allowed to become a Liberal insider.