[BartSimpson]

Russia has ended diplomatic relations with Turkey over this and then today they resumed bombing the shit out of the ethnic Turks living inside of Syria.

Arguably the Turks were defending the ethnic Turks yesterday when they fired on the Russian jet which had been bombing their people.

The hypocrisy of the Russians in this is that they invaded Ukraine on the pretext that ethnic Russians were being oppressed by the regime in Kiev. The Russians have also spent much of the past two years threatening the Baltic states with regards to their ethnic Russian populations.

I say it's time for NATO to tell the ethnic Russians in the Baltics to fuck off and go back to Russia.

[andyt]

Well, in Syria, we should probably give Russia free rein, since any alternative to Assad will be so much worse. The talk now is about holding democratic elections, that even Russia is on board with that. We all know how those elections will likely turn out - another Islamist totalitarian govt, probably spewing hate at the West.

In Iraq, what's the option there? Nobody is going to take over the Sunni middle part, neither the Kurds nor the Shia are crazy enough to get sucked into that. So if ISIS is destroyed by military intervention, then what? The area will just be a Sunni crazy place that keeps breeding jihadis no matter what the call themselves, likely with support from our "ally" Saudi Arabia.

The right likes to rag on the left for having dreams of democracy taking over in the ME, but GWB did it first and did it best, taking out a tyrant, expecting to be greeted as liberators, only to have the end result be much worse.

[BartSimpson]

In both Syria and Iraq the real solution is to take apart these failed states and cede some of their territory to others.

Were it up to me I'd establish a free Kurdish state from Iraqi and Syrian territory and I'd allow the Turks to expel their Kurdish population into this new country.

The Shia part of Iraq I'd hand off to Iran.

The Turkish part of Syria would return to Turkish rule.

Southern Syria would transfer to Jordan.

Western Syria would transfer to Lebanon or Turkey depending on who could best secure it.

The Golan Heights would be permanently transferred to Israel.

The landlocked remainder of Syria would stay with Assad and the Alewites. Let them then have to get along with their neighbors in order to facilitate trade.

[andyt]

But it's not up to you. There's no power in the world that could pull this off.

And you forgot about the Sunni part of Iraq.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

But it's not up to you. There's no power in the world that could pull this off.

Sooner or later it will happen on its own. Facilitating a natural division would save lives...even those of people I don't particularly like.

As to the Sunni part of Iraq they'd still have some oil and they'd have to make some new friends PDQ or else get run over by everyone else.

[N_Fiddledog]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Russia has ended diplomatic relations with Turkey over this and then today they resumed bombing the shit out of the ethnic Turks living inside of Syria.

More on that -

Putin takes his revenge: Russia unleashes heavy bombardment on region held by Turkmen rebels who chanted 'Allahu Akbar' over the dead body of pilot shot down by Turkish F-16

[ccga3359]

And the US confirm that the jet was shot down over Syria

[Winnipegger]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I say it's time for NATO to tell the ethnic Russians in the Baltics to fuck off and go back to Russia.

Obama did that. He personally visited Estonia September 3-5, 2014. From the White House website:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/foreign-policy/estonia-uk-trip

$1:

Four broad agenda items shape his trip: demonstrating our commitment to Article 5 and our NATO Allies, particularly in Eastern and Central Europe; responding to Russian actions in Ukraine; ensuring that NATO continues to be prepared and equipped to respond to traditional and emerging threats; and advancing NATO’s role as a global security hub as its Afghanistan mission winds down.

[ccga3359]

Now turkey is claiming they didn't know the jet was Russian when they shot it down? Did they think that it could possibly be one of their NATO allies when they were pulling the trigger?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/622 ... -Murakhtin

[BeaverFever]

Syria has Su-24s but I still don't buy Turkeys excuse. Not that I care terribly either way except that it's an unnecessary complication

[Winnipegger]

Aw, come on. Show some guts. Putin already equivocated when he claimed the jet was not in Turkey's air space. The CBC reports Turkey has repeatedly warned Russia not to fly in Turkey's air space; Russia has blatantly ignored the warnings. Just be sure it was, and tell Putin if he flies another jet into Turkey's air space, it'll be shot down too.

[BeaverFever]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Aw, come on. Show some guts. Putin already equivocated when he claimed the jet was not in Turkey's air space. The CBC reports Turkey has repeatedly warned Russia not to fly in Turkey's air space; Russia has blatantly ignored the warnings. Just be sure it was, and tell Putin if he flies another jet into Turkey's air space, it'll be shot down too.

Yes that's all fine but now in retaliation, Russia is focusing all of its air power against the Turkmen instead of ISIS so this has been completely unhelpful. I suppose we'll get along fine against ISIS without the Russians but still.

[ccga3359]

[Delwin]

If this thing escalates it has the potential to turn into a real Turkey shoot.

[Jabberwalker]

Delwin Delwin:

If this thing escalates it has the potential to turn into a real Turkey shoot.

There you go again, rushin' to conclusions.