[BartSimpson]

Look, if you're going out to see how thin the thin ice is don't be surprised if Nature isn't so impressed by your credentials that she won't let you die of stupidity.

In other news, a team of locomotive impact researchers were standing on a railroad track when...

[N_Fiddledog]

In general in the arctic it looks like the thaw begins between April and May.

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php

Here's Bathurst Island where the Dutchies fell in the drink.

http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/tes ... 25&sy=2014

Here's the melt in April 25 1985 compared to April 25 2014 (they don't have 2015).

http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/tes ... 25&sy=2014

It's hard to tell in any precise way, but it looks like the melt begins in that area about that time.

[BartSimpson]

Well, I suppose if you're intent on proving that the ice in the Arctic is melting it can be useful to go there when the ice predictably melts to gather proof that it's melting.

[N_Fiddledog]

But wait, now I'm not sure.

Because according to these stats from I'm not sure what year or years the thaw in Resolute Bay, 180 k away would begin in June.

http://www.yr.no/place/canada/nunavut/b ... tics.html#

I don't know. I can't figure it out. I think it would be a lot simpler just to not let any more dutch people into our arctic.

So they'll stop falling through the ice, you see.

[DrCaleb]

Keeping it classy there Fiddledoggie!

[N_Fiddledog]

I googled for a smiley that was titled "smug".

[DrCaleb]

Not the emoticon I'd use when a couple people trying to make the world a better place meet their untimely deaths. But, hey! Whatever keeps you warm at night!

[N_Fiddledog]

Yeah, but see - I need a smiley to show I'm making joke about being smug.

You and yours don't need one. The smug is just assumed.

Here's the thing.

Your comparison is not apt.

The ship of fools twats thought they'd smugly motor down into the Antarctic during a period of record high ice extent years and keep going when they first saw ice.

They believed the ice was gone therefore it was gone, you see. Now that's smug.

It took Chinese, Russian, and Australian icebreakers weeks (or was it months?) to realize rescuing the ship was futile and all they could do was send in Helicopters to get those morons of the ice. That's how bad they'd lodged themselves in there. How much stupidity does that take?

They believed the ice wasn't going to be a problem during a period it was setting records. How dumb was that?

You tell me I can't notice how stupid it was, because some Dutch researchers in the arctic went through the ice in what the Guardian (who was part of the ship of fools expedition) calls an unseasonal melt.

There's lots of reasons for thin ice. If you look at the map you'll see it thin or thick here or there for whatever reasons at whatever time of the year. Waves, tides, salinity, currents, state of AMO.

Ever seen one of these pics?



They went through the ice. These things happen. It's not the same thing as the concentration of dumb that was necessary for the "Ship of Fools" expedition.

And so I laugh.

But now you want to do the RomanP crocodile tears thing of "You can't notice facts, cause look. Dead children". Except in your case it's dead researchers.

Too bad. Doesn't work. Facts are a thing I notice. Save your phony tears for your pillow.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Not the emoticon I'd use when a couple people trying to make the world a better place meet their untimely deaths. But, hey! Whatever keeps you warm at night!

No, they were out there hoping that they could document how badly the ice was melting during a period in which the ice normally melts.

"Here, hold my beer while I check to see how thin this thin ice is!"

Zero sympathy from me.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Not the emoticon I'd use when a couple people trying to make the world a better place meet their untimely deaths. But, hey! Whatever keeps you warm at night!

No, they were out there hoping that they could document how badly the ice was melting during a period in which the ice normally melts.

"Here, hold my beer while I check to see how thin this thin ice is!"

Zero sympathy from me.

No, they were documenting the ice thickness, when it was supposed to be thickest. And, for the first time, it wasn't enough to support their weight.

Not expecting sympathy from you, but you also weren't mocking their passing. Still think Fiddly and I have similar debating styles?

[DrCaleb]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Yeah, but see - I need a smiley to show I'm making joke about being smug.

You and yours don't need one. The smug is just assumed.

Here's the thing.

Your comparison is not apt.

The ship of fools twats thought they'd smugly motor down into the Antarctic during a period of record high ice extent years and keep going when they first saw ice.

They believed the ice was gone therefore it was gone, you see. Now that's smug.

Mmmm, no. They went to an area known for not having summer ice, and the wind pushed ice into their path faster than they could get out of the way.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-25833307

The smug part is assuming you know their intentions better than they do.

[N_Fiddledog]

So in discussing things that can cause thinning ice I mentioned Waves, tides, salinity, currents, and state of AMO. I forgot wind.

Wind is a big one when you are talking causes of Arctic melt. In fact I've heard explanations that say wind could explain the lion's share of recent melts.

Another one we forgot was black smog dust. Also clouds or sunshine and albedo.

Now as to your choice of a link to the 'Ship of Fools' story, yes the warmists at the state-run BBC have a version.

Personally I prefer Spectator Magazine's.

$1:

Global warming's glorious ship of fools


Has there ever been a better story? It's like a version of Titanic where first class cheers for the iceberg

[snip]

I confess I was hoping it might all drag on a bit longer and the cultists of the ecopalypse would find themselves drawing straws as to which of their number would be first on the roasting spit. On Douglas Mawson’s original voyage, he and his surviving comrade wound up having to eat their dogs. I’m not sure there were any on this expedition, so they’d probably have to make do with the Guardian reporters. Forced to wait a year to be rescued, Sir Douglas later recalled, ‘Several of my toes commenced to blacken and fester near the tips.’ Now there’s a man who’s serious about reducing his footprint...

http://new.spectator.co.uk/2014/01/ship-of-fools-2/

Although the Australian's wasn't bad either.

$1:

Stuck on a ship of (cold) fools

YOU have to feel a touch of sympathy for the global warming scientists, journalists and other hangers-on aboard the Russian ship stuck in impenetrable ice in Antarctica, the mission they so confidently embarked on to establish solid evidence of melting ice caps resulting from climate change embarrassingly abandoned because the ice is, in fact, so impossibly thick.

The aim of the Australasian Antarctic Expedition, led by Chris Turney of the University of NSW, was to prove the East Antarctic ice sheet is melting. Its website spoke alarmingly of "an increasing body of evidence" showing "melting and collapse from ocean warming". Instead, rescue ships and a helicopter, all belching substantial carbon emissions, have had to be mobilised to pluck those aboard the icebreaker MV Akademik Schokalskiy from their plight, stuck in what appears to be, ironically, record amounts of ice for this time of year.

In that lies a hard lesson for those who persistently exaggerate the impact of global warming. We believe in man-made climate change and are no less concerned than others about it. But the cause of sensible policy is ill-served by exaggeration; there is a need for recognition of the science, which shows there are variations in how climate is changing and what the impact is, or will be.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion ... 6793309195

[N_Fiddledog]

Oh, I like this one from Australian news too.

(I didn't know the BBC was also involved in this clown show.)

$1:

Let there be no doubt, the mission was to document and record scientific changes in Antarctica and to broadcast that to the world. Most scientific missions don’t have a dedicated media team, but this one named a staff of five journalists. There is a journalist and a documentary maker from the Guardian as well as a senior producer from the Science Unit at the BBC world service. If they’d discovered less sea ice, fewer penguins, or big cracks, we know the images would be all over the mass media and it would be evidence for “climate change”.

But when the MV Akademik Shokalskiy trapped by thick sea ice, the mission apparently decided to call it a tourist boat. The BBC now tell us the mission was “to follow the route explorer Douglas Mawson travelled a century ago”. Don’t mention the climate.

http://australian-news.net/articles/view.php?id=178

[DrCaleb]

So, basically you ran out of things to support your opinion, and now you are just having fun mocking people?

Argumentum "deliqui ergo superabo".

[N_Fiddledog]

I think of it more as the meanderings that happen at the end of a dying thread, but thanks for the new term. I didn't know that one.

However I did hear something mildly interesting in the way of actual information yesterday, and it will fit here. Until you spoke though, I wouldn't have bothered.

Remember how one time we were discussing this year's arctic ice melt.

Remember how I was telling you it disappointed me because it looked like it was going to be more or less normal but then at the very end (towards the summer maximum) the line on the graph took a sudden dive downward?

Well, there's a curious thing about ice extent graphs. After the melt season is over and the lines have all been smoothed, you can look at the year in its entirety and get a different impression.

Another interesting thing about the graph is what's happening right now. Watch.



Cool, eh? Highest in ten years right now. But it gets better. There's what's happening on Greenland.

$1:

Land ice has also grown at a record rate since September 1, with Greenland gaining about three billion tons of ice a day since September 1.

http://realclimatescience.com/2015/11/r ... continues/