[andyt]

I think Yogi's point was that this guy is no different than a logger or a miner who goes to work everyday knowing there's a chance he could get killed on the job. Those jobs, and some others, actually have a substantially higher mortality rate than police work. That cop walking up to that door is no different than a faller walking up to a tree that may have a widowmaker in it or barberchair on him. The cop did his job, I respect him for it, but making him into a hero seems a bit over the top.

[ShepherdsDog]

The cop puts his life on the line everyday to safeguard the lives of others.....that's the big difference.

[Zipperfish]

Meh. It depends what you mean by hero, I suppose. The firefighters in 9/11--were they heroes? Just doing their job really. They didn't save anybody, just got killed right along with them. Guys that got limbs blown off in Afghanistan--were they heroes?

It's part of the social contract as far as I'm concerned. You honor those who put on a uniform and run towards the trouble when everyone else is running away, that makes you a hero in my books, even if not connected to a heroic deed. With no disresepct to those that die on the job, certain jobs--cops, firefighters, soldiers--are a higher calling. Just my opinion.

[andyt]

YOu want to make every soldier killed or injured a hero? Kinda demeans the term, doesn't it? The heroes are the ones they give the medals to, ie the ones that went above and beyond. Same with police. If a cop gets shot braving bullets to save anohter's life that's a hero. If a cop gets shot out of the blue, that's no more heroic than the faller I mentioned. Just the shit that happens on the job.

But we love the hero game. Makes us feel all noble, makes for great media.

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

YOu want to make every soldier killed or injured a hero? Kinda demeans the term, doesn't it? The heroes are the ones they give the medals to, ie the ones that went above and beyond. Same with police. If a cop gets shot braving bullets to save anohter's life that's a hero. If a cop gets shot out of the blue, that's no more heroic than the faller I mentioned. Just the shit that happens on the job.

But we love the hero game. Makes us feel all noble, makes for great media.

No it's more than that. How many folks would sign up for alifetime of abuse, dealing with drunks and criminals and scraping people off the roqad if the attitude of society was "well, he got paid a decent wage for it"? How many folks would sign up to leave their families, travel halfway around the world into hellholes like Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria if the collective attitude was, when they are killed, was "well, that's what he signed up for. shoulda seen it coming"? Maybe exaggerating a bit, but I think it's important.

Shoulda seen the strip I tore off the guy running the Remembrance Day soccer tourney a couple of years ago when they didn't stop the tournament at 11.

[andyt]

Rememberance day is different. Of course they deserve our respect. I think the term hero gets devalued when we overuse it tho. And the men Remeberance day was created for would not be comfortable being called heroes, I think. Just doing their duty and deserving of respect for it.

I do think many cops, firefighters and soldiers sign up because it represents good pay compared to what else they could be doing. Paramedics are teh ones scraping people off the roads, we don't really honor them. I don't think being a cop is such a hellhole of a job compared again, to say loggers or miners. (I could not do underground mining).

I'm not really trying to take anything away from cops, I'm more trying to add something to other jobs - ie that work is noble, many jobs are dangerous or have poor working conditions.

But, the diff is that the death of Const. Woodall represents an attack on all of us (just figuring this out as I write) that a faller dying doesn't. So it certainly merits more ceremony. Maybe part of it is that he stepped in for all of us, and that's what makes is more noteworthy. Still, he's not a hero. A hero would be if one of his comrades ran in to pull him to safety, despite his training and orders. Maybe we need a new term for lesser hero, or we start calling the really special ones superheroes.

[BRAH]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

The cop puts his life on the line everyday to safeguard the lives of others.....that's the big difference.

Anyone who puts on a uniform whether it be Emergency Services or the Military is a Hero.

[andyt]

In that case hero just becomes a sandwich.

[bootlegga]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Meh. It depends what you mean by hero, I suppose. The firefighters in 9/11--were they heroes? Just doing their job really. They didn't save anybody, just got killed right along with them. Guys that got limbs blown off in Afghanistan--were they heroes?

It's part of the social contract as far as I'm concerned. You honor those who put on a uniform and run towards the trouble when everyone else is running away, that makes you a hero in my books, even if not connected to a heroic deed. With no disresepct to those that die on the job, certain jobs--cops, firefighters, soldiers--are a higher calling. Just my opinion.

[ShepherdsDog]

Saw plenty of heroism from regular people while I was in east Africa....unarmed doctors, nurses, teachers and other aid workers standing up to armed thugs who were threatening them and those they were trying to help.

[BRAH]

[BRAH]

[rickc]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Yogi Yogi:

Let's look at this tradgedy from a different angle. Why is Const. Woodall being refered to as a 'hero'? The man was doing the job he was hired to do. He had specific training & safety gear. He also had another officer with him. No way they could have forseen the outcome. Had they really been concerned they had at their disposal the even better trained & equipped swat team.

Because he was killed in the line of duty. Now I make fun of baconfaces as much as the next guy. And it's my personal opinion there's too many cops out there. But that said, I'll be the first in line--the FIRST in line--to salute those that have fallen.

Well said! The man died in the line of duty. He deserves to shown a certain level of respect. I spend a fair amount of time criticizing the police for some of the shoddy work that they do. I feel that the police in the States is getting to militarized. Many of them are acting like an occupying army and not peace officers whose job is to deesclate situations that they arrive at.

That said, the vast majority of police are hard working, diligent people. They have a shitty job. They are constantly dealing with the dregs of society. They are constantly being lied too. Always surrounded by scumbags, and the criminal element has to take a toll on people. I know that I do not have the temperament for it.

RIP Constable Woodall. Your service is greatly appreciated. Condolences to the family.

[Yogi]

andyt andyt:

I think Yogi's point was that this guy is no different than a logger or a miner who goes to work everyday knowing there's a chance he could get killed on the job. Those jobs, and some others, actually have a substantially higher mortality rate than police work. That cop walking up to that door is no different than a faller walking up to a tree that may have a widowmaker in it or barberchair on him. The cop did his job, I respect him for it, but making him into a hero seems a bit over the top.

Was waiting for all of us to 'cool down' a bit. My point is actually that all people murdered during the course of their employ should be treated equal. I thought that was obvious, but obviously not eh!