[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

I showed you mine, show me yours.

Actually, no, I didn't read any numbers in the article you linked. You said we were short $3000/year/driver. I don't see that figure (nor any other) in that link. I'm curious of the number. I don't know the number. I'm skeptical of your number.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Lemmy made the claim, take aim where aim is due.

I made no claim beyond skepticism that each driver in Canada did >$3000/year damage to roads beyond their contributions via gasoline tax.

[BeaverFever]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Maybe all the money society is giving Toronto to build their subway system

And what money is that exactly? I don't recall getting any cheques from Alberta nd even the Feds are pretty stingy.

[bootlegga]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Add to that, how about the big cities like Toronto get their property taxes in-line?

How much would you pay for a house worth $400,000 in the following cities?

Ajax = $5243.17
Brampton = $4505.33
Markham = $3326.03
Mississauga = $3633.48
Pickering = $5207.35
Oshawa= $6362.68
Toronto= $2892.03

You can buy a house in Toronto for $400k? Really?

[PluggyRug]

......double that would be closer too the mark.

[2Cdo]

bootlegga bootlegga:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Add to that, how about the big cities like Toronto get their property taxes in-line?

How much would you pay for a house worth $400,000 in the following cities?

Ajax = $5243.17
Brampton = $4505.33
Markham = $3326.03
Mississauga = $3633.48
Pickering = $5207.35
Oshawa= $6362.68
Toronto= $2892.03

You can buy a house in Toronto for $400k? Really?

Sure you can, it's the basement suite of an outhouse.

[BeaverFever]

bootlegga bootlegga:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Add to that, how about the big cities like Toronto get their property taxes in-line?

How much would you pay for a house worth $400,000 in the following cities?

Ajax = $5243.17
Brampton = $4505.33
Markham = $3326.03
Mississauga = $3633.48
Pickering = $5207.35
Oshawa= $6362.68
Toronto= $2892.03

You can buy a house in Toronto for $400k? Really?

That's the thing- nobody in Toronto has a house worth 400k. Average fully detached house price is now one mil. The house in Toronto worth 400k is a one bedroom condo. And thanks to poor regulation of the housing market, speculation forces prices to skyrocket one year to the next. Fix the housing market and end these ridiculous housing prices first and then I'll support a raise in TO property taxes.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

That's the thing- nobody in Toronto has a house worth 400k. Average fully detached house price is now one mil. The house in Toronto worth 400k is a one bedroom condo. And thanks to poor regulation of the housing market, speculation forces prices to skyrocket one year to the next. Fix the housing market and end these ridiculous housing prices first and then I'll support a raise in TO property taxes.

The price of the house is irrelevant.

The housing market doesn't need to be "fixed". It's driven by the consumer.

The issue is the low tax rate. The City that needs the money the most to support it's aging infrastructure and services shouldn't have a tax rate at 1/2 it's neighbours.

If you can afford a million dollar house, you can afford to pay the taxes that comes along with it.

[Alta_redneck]

e

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Maybe all the money society is giving Toronto to build their subway system

And what money is that exactly? I don't recall getting any cheques from Alberta nd even the Feds are pretty stingy.

$1B of Fed money was guaranteed, there might be a problem tho, the guy writing the cheque is dead and the guy that was suppose to cash it, is no longer mayor. I'll let you figure out what happened and if everyone lived happily ever after.

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

I showed you mine, show me yours.

Actually, no, I didn't read any numbers in the article you linked. You said we were short $3000/year/driver. I don't see that figure (nor any other) in that link. I'm curious of the number. I don't know the number. I'm skeptical of your number.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Lemmy made the claim, take aim where aim is due.

I made no claim beyond skepticism that each driver in Canada did >$3000/year damage to roads beyond their contributions via gasoline tax.

$1:

So you need to bear in mind that this is manifestly not a disinterested study. For a more disinterested accounting, I would recommend the older 2005 Transport Canada study, which found that the annual total financial costs of the road system in Canada are $16.5 to $25.8 billion, while annual revenues from fuel taxes and fees at the federal and provincial levels were only $12.8 billion, i.e. a shortfall of between $3.7 and $13 billion per year.

https://raisethehammer.org/article/1994 ... ario_roads

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

https://raisethehammer.org/article/1994 ... ario_roads

Now this is a completely un-biased site.

[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

https://raisethehammer.org/article/1994/conference_board_study:_drivers_do_not_pay_full_cost_of_ontario_roads

The link to the Conference Board study doesn't work.

[DrCaleb]

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

https://raisethehammer.org/article/1994/conference_board_study:_drivers_do_not_pay_full_cost_of_ontario_roads

The link to the Conference Board study doesn't work.

Try this one:

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/press/new ... rists.aspx

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/e-library ... x?did=5697

Oh, wait . .

[Lemmy]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Try this one:

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/press/new ... rists.aspx

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/e-library ... x?did=5697

Oh, wait . .

From that Conference Board study:

$1:

CONCLUSION
Motorists in Ontario meet at least a large portion of the
costs that they impose on the road infrastructure—and
in major urban areas probably much more than those
costs. If we look at the total cost of driving, including
vehicle costs, cost recovery will tend to be closer to
100 per cent.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Lemmy Lemmy:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Try this one:

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/press/new ... rists.aspx

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/e-library ... x?did=5697

Oh, wait . .

From that Conference Board study:

$1:

CONCLUSION
Motorists in Ontario meet at least a large portion of the
costs that they impose on the road infrastructure—and
in major urban areas probably much more than those
costs. If we look at the total cost of driving, including
vehicle costs, cost recovery will tend to be closer to
100 per cent.

There is another conclusion that probably has little to do with that particular study. Increased gas prices or taxes on gasoline do NOT decrease the amount of traffic or vehicles hours on the road.
There will likely be short-term reductions as people adjust but the adjustment period usually ends pretty quickly. If you want a real world example of that, look at Britain where they pay on average $10/gallon for gas. The price of gasoline` has not reduced traffic in any way over the long term.

The City of London tried a slightly different tack to reduce traffic congestion in the core area by charging a fee for every vehicle entering the core area. This reduced traffic congestion in the core but only for a short period of time. As people adjusted to to the new fee, traffic ended up pretty much back to "normal" volumes.