[Regina]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Where this is really going to impact Canada is in PICU treatment because most of your PICU cases get sent down here.

That is absolutely flat out false. Whoever fed you that trash is not your friend.

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

For now. Starting in 2015 or 2016 part of the plan is to stop allowing foreigners to have elective and non-emergency treatments in the USA. You'll still get trauma treatment but then you'll get sent home for anything else.

Where this is really going to impact Canada is in PICU treatment because most of your PICU cases get sent down here. Obamacare plans on eliminating 'excess' health care capability like you see along the border with US hospitals that have extra beds just to accomadate anticipated Canadian patients. Supposedly this is to reduce costs as the US moves to single-payer and for when the entire health care system is nationalized.

BS!

Canada has plenty of PICU beds and doesn't need to send anyone south except in extremely rare cases - those being for ultra-rare conditions (literally the 1 in a million type medical conditions) that we simply don't normally see up here due to our much lower population.

The Stollery here in Edmonton provides service to most of the NWT, northern Saskatchewan as well as north and central Alberta. Another major Level 1 trauma centre in Calgary covers the rest and parts of Saskatchewan.

http://www.picu.med.ualberta.ca/

While Canada may not have as many Level 1 trauma centres as the USA, we don't need as many due to our much smaller population. Canada has 16 children's hospitals, whilr California, with about the same population as Canada, has 14. Sounds like we have about the right number...

[Vamp018]

I never heard of Canada having any shortage's of PICU or NICU's. I should know as the USCG enjoys a great relationship with RCAF SAR crews on a variety of training. Never once did I hear RCAF SAR complain about shortage's. I've more good things about Canada's Healthcare then ours and the UK. Strange thing is Obama Care mimics the UK's, not Canada's. I'd rather have Canada's then the UK BS. That's just me.

[BartSimpson]

I ran this query about two years ago when Andy first posed it and I found then that Canada was behind the USA (per 100,000 of population) on ICU beds, PICU in particular, trauma centers, and medical transports of all forms.

At that time and still the fair comparison with Canada is California. Our population numbers are pretty close but I will note the geographic disparity is huge and the dispersal of Canadian population is far greater than in California.

Those last two factors logically would require Canada to outpace California on the number of medical transports and, in particular, air ambulances. Except that Canada is far behind California in this respect but I'll leave that for now to focus on the topic at hand.

The following is excerpted from an Excel sheet from Health Canada and I can email it to anyone who asks or you can Google it and download it for yourself.

Hospital Beds Staffed and In Operation, Fiscal Year 2012-2013

This sheet does not discern between ICU/PICU beds so I will use the aggregate number of ICU beds for comparison and you can extrapolate the PICU beds from there...

Canada's total reported number of all ICU beds for FY 2012-2013 = 2907

Here are the stats for California for 2010:

0:

File comment: Calif. ICU

ICU.PNG [ 74.59 KiB | Viewed 93 times ]

California's total ICU beds = 71,147 (and that's four years ago).

California's total of PICU beds (13,102) outnumbers Canada's reported total of all ICU beds.

And that's for similar populations.

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

California's total ICU beds = 71,147 (and that's four years ago).

California's total of PICU beds (13,102) outnumbers Canada's reported total of all ICU beds.

And that's for similar populations.

There's no doubt that the US as a whole has more ICU beds than Canada. However, that doesn't back up your claim of:

$1:

Where this is really going to impact Canada is in PICU treatment because most of your PICU cases get sent down here.

'Most' of our PICU cases aren't sent to the US. Might some of our PICU patients get transferred to the US....perhaps...but claiming 'most' is just ludicrous.

Having a child go through a PICU myself and knowing many families in the same boat, I've never heard of one case here in Ontario that a child was sent to the US for treatment.

Being part of an organization here for parents with twins, I've spoken to many families with premature twins and all have been treated locally.

[BartSimpson]

What originally brought this up with Andy and I was a discussion of US hospitals along the border (like this one http://www.communitymed.org/ ) where they have far more capability than their community requires.

Why?

Because their business is serving the needs of Canadians who get sent across the border for treatment.

And at the time of our discussion (abut two years ago) it was noted that much (most was a bad choice of words on my part) of Canada's PICU gets sent to the US for treatment due to a lack of available beds in Canada.

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And at the time of our discussion (abut two years ago) it was noted that much (most was a bad choice of words on my part) of Canada's PICU gets sent to the US for treatment due to a lack of available beds in Canada.

'Much' or 'Most'.....either one of them is incorrect.

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And at the time of our discussion (abut two years ago) it was noted that much (most was a bad choice of words on my part) of Canada's PICU gets sent to the US for treatment due to a lack of available beds in Canada.

'Much' or 'Most'.....either one of them is incorrect.

Much is correct given that a whole health care industry in the US has sprouted up to provide services to Canadians.

[OnTheIce]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And at the time of our discussion (abut two years ago) it was noted that much (most was a bad choice of words on my part) of Canada's PICU gets sent to the US for treatment due to a lack of available beds in Canada.

'Much' or 'Most'.....either one of them is incorrect.

Just because you say it's correct, doesn't mean it is.

[raydan]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And at the time of our discussion (abut two years ago) it was noted that much (most was a bad choice of words on my part) of Canada's PICU gets sent to the US for treatment due to a lack of available beds in Canada.

'Much' or 'Most'.....either one of them is incorrect.

Just because you say it's correct, doesn't mean it is.

For once, I agree with you.



Think about it.

[Regina]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What originally brought this up with Andy and I was a discussion of US hospitals along the border (like this one http://www.communitymed.org/ ) where they have far more capability than their community requires.

Why?

Because their business is serving the needs of Canadians who get sent across the border for treatment.

And at the time of our discussion (abut two years ago) it was noted that much (most was a bad choice of words on my part) of Canada's PICU gets sent to the US for treatment due to a lack of available beds in Canada.

Your overall argument is irrelevant, false and flat out doesn't happen. No matter how many Pediatric "beds" are available in the US, we are not short of PICU nor the expertise to treat them.

[Regina]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Much is correct given that a whole health care industry in the US has sprouted up to provide services to Canadians.

Again that is another untrue statement. For "profit" healthcare is just that, and is there to make a profit from any revenue source available. The fact that 85% of our population lives within a few hundred miles of the US border and that some will seek quicker treatment or second opinions shouldn't be confused with a lack of service or expertise in Canada.

[BartSimpson]

Regina Regina:

The fact that 85% of our population lives within a few hundred miles of the US border and that some will seek quicker treatment or second opinions shouldn't be confused with a lack of service or expertise in Canada.

Actualy, yes it should.

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

'Much' or 'Most'.....either one of them is incorrect.

Just because you say it's correct, doesn't mean it is.

I agree with you.

[Regina]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Regina Regina:

The fact that 85% of our population lives within a few hundred miles of the US border and that some will seek quicker treatment or second opinions shouldn't be confused with a lack of service or expertise in Canada.

Actualy, yes it should.

No sorry it does not.
Name 10 US hospitals along the US Canadian border that were erected to treat Canadian patients.