[N_Fiddledog]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

It was you in the beginning, but we managed to pull you down to earth a bit where rational discussion is possible.

Now people like me and Bart have to enter crazy town in the clouds from time to time to bring the rest of them down to reality.

Crazy town. Yeah, that's not a bad way of putting it.

Dunno if I've said this before or not, but I'm actually on board with you on the idea of adaptation over mitigation.

I think we differ on how that would look like though. I'm thinking something like how Boston adapted over the centuries to rising sea level. I suspect you might be thinking something like building a 100 foot wall around Manhattan, because Hansen said 20 years ago that Manhattan would be flooded out by 2012.

[BeaverFever]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

See, this is what I hate about science by press release.

"The new study has been accepted for publication in Geophysical Research Letters, a journal of the American Geophysical Union, but Nasa held a teleconference on Monday to brief reporters on the findings."

The study isn't available to scrutinize. Antarctica has been setting records in general for sea ice maximums though, so you know there is another side to this one. You just can't see it until the study actually appears.

Here you go sir....for your expert scientific scrutiny. Will you, Sarah Palin Joe the Plumber be conducting a joint analysis, or should I send them each a separate link?

PDF link:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 060140/pdf

[andyt]

bootlegga bootlegga:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

andyt andyt:

But PA9 made a good point - if the loss of the ice is inevitable, as the paper says, lie back and enjoy it. Same with global warming. If we are causing it with our emissions, well lie back and enjoy it, because we'll never reduce them in time to make a diff. We're just not built that way. Just Learn to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

So, what about the rest of the changes warming will bring about that aren't inevitable? What will our grandkids think of us knowing we could have done something and didn't?

0:

global warming.jpg

the road to this better world would be incredibly painful. Our economies are based on cheap carbon fuels. Try to reduce the use of those to the level required that CO2 stays in acceptable limits, and quickly enough to stay below those limits and our global economy would collapse.

While the rate of population increase is slowing, there are still plenty of little consumers born every day. The Asian nations have woken up to wanting the levels of consumption that we enjoy and more and more people there have the means to join the piggy club. No way the world is going to get off that ride until way too late.

People like to think if they drive a little smaller care and make a few other adjustments it would take care of the problem. Not on your life. It would take a lot more than that, especially since we have no replacement sources of energy that will do the trick.

[N_Fiddledog]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Here you go sir....for your expert scientific scrutiny. Will you, Sarah Palin Joe the Plumber be conducting a joint analysis, or should I send them each a separate link?

PDF link:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 060140/pdf

Won't be necessary. We reserve Sarah for the tough stuff.

But yeah I see there's a link in the article now. Also reviews are starting to pop up.

Here's a couple from the warmist side.

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/ ... -ice-news/

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/ ... blogs&_r=0

Here's one from the Skeptic side.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/05/13/t ... reporting/

Here's what both sides seem to be in agreement on.

The alarmist media is going hyper alarmist on this story. They're wrong to do so. Wrong as in incorrect.

There is no certainty or even clarity as to a prediction on the timescale or sea level rise effect caused by these possible west Antarctica ice sheet melts.

Also there seems to be more than one study on this. This one is just the latest. For some reason the media decided to create an issue here. My best guess is "Squirrel!"

[N_Fiddledog]

Here's a quote from the New York Times guy. This is the best alarmism can do when it's being honest.

$1:

Over all, the loss of the West Antarctic ice from warming is appearing “more likely a definite thing to worry about on a thousand-year time scale but not a hundred years,” Dr. Pollard said.

Several independent specialists on ice sheets and climate said it was premature to conclude from this simulation that fast-paced ice loss from Antarctica was not possible. Eric Rignot of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory cautioned that the new findings were based on a single, fairly simple simulation and said that while the results matched well with the seabed evidence, they lacked the precision needed to know what will happen over short periods.

“This new study illustrates once more that the collapse of West Antarctica and parts of East Antarctica is not a myth,” he said. “It happened many times before when the Earth was as warm as it is about to be. In terms of time scales, I do not think the results of this study are relevant to what will be happening in the next 100 years and beyond. The problem is far more complex. But this is a step forward.”

[Jabberwalker]

Yup. It's true. Not my problem. I'll be dead.

Don't buy any land in Florida for your children to inherit, though because it won't be there ... after we're dead, of course.

[N_Fiddledog]

Nah, don't buy in Florida. Do what Al Gore and Suzuki do - buy your million dollar beach homes on the Pacific. Hey, they must know something, right?

[N_Fiddledog]

BTW did anybody notice the article on the front page here that reports how they've discovered underwater volcanoes off the Western Antarctic.

What does that suggest about possible causes for the melting of the underwater break to the ice sheets flow? Even if they're right, I mean.

[Jabberwalker]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Nah, don't buy in Florida. Do what Al Gore and Suzuki do - buy your million dollar beach homes on the Pacific. Hey, they must know something, right?

If you figure that global warming is some sort of Suzuki-Gore cabal that they just cooked up, you need to get out more. Try a library for starters.

[N_Fiddledog]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Nah, don't buy in Florida. Do what Al Gore and Suzuki do - buy your million dollar beach homes on the Pacific. Hey, they must know something, right?

If you figure that global warming is some sort of Suzuki-Gore cabal that they just cooked up, you need to get out more. Try a library for starters.

If you think a personal slur is going to shut me up, you're not bright enough to consider the evidence. And that btw is your problem with the global warming issue - just in case your interested.

[Jabberwalker]

I don't care if you shut up or not. This is a free-speech zone. Invoking the names of Suzuki and Gore with every second post might not be the most honest approach, though. There are a few others out there, like all of those commie bum planetary scientists in NASA.

[Zipperfish]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

I don't care if you shut up or not. This is a free-speech zone. Invoking the names of Suzuki and Gore with every second post might not be the most honest approach, though. There are a few others out there, like all of those commie bum planetary scientists in NASA.

The scientists are in on it too. And the media. And Hollywood. And the politicians. And the progs and libtards. And Obama. And the UN.

[N_Fiddledog]

In on it? Nah, it's more like a virus that renders it's victims incapable of consideration of fact, or common sense.

I'm starting to notice the state of Prog behaves more like an itis than an ism. The symptoms make themselves known as a kind of self-destructive narcissism, but it spreads like an itis. And I suspect it might be historical. When a society becomes too fat or free the progs appear, open the gates to the barbarians and destroy themselves from within. That's what I'm starting to think.

But as to the hyper-alarmism from the media based on this article stop worrying. They're not sure how long you might be waiting for your catastrophe. Even if you choose to believe them it could be a 1,000 years.

[Zipperfish]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

In on it? Nah, it's more like a virus that renders it's victims incapable of consideration of fact, or common sense.

I hear that quite a bit. Common sense isn't that common. Most people don't like to think because it's hard work to think. I read a book on it. You actually burn calories thinking. People are naturally lazy, so rather than think they just result to familiar heuristics ("rules of thumb", hunches, feelings) that have always worked for them in the past.

$1:

I sometimes wonder if the state of Prog is an ism or an itis.

Maybe you should consult a prog-tologist.

$1:

It's kind of a self-destructive narcissism I know that. And I suspect it might be historical. When a society becomes too fat and free the progs appear, open the gates to the barbarians and destroy themselves from within. That's what I'm starting to think.

Believe it or not, I think along the same lines. Without a common moral foundation a society is unable to make decisions, no matter how much information is provided to them. Like you, it's just something I've just started thinking about the last few years. It has probably less proggy than I would otherwise tend to be. It was actually Thanos that got me started on that somehow.

$1:

But as to the hyper-alarmism from the media based on this article stop worrying. They're not sure how long you might waiting for your catastrophe. Could be a 1,000 years.

The finding is important. The overwrought media aren't.

[DrCaleb]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Maybe you should consult a prog-tologist.