[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

Nice two faced argument. Sandorski is right you say, yet he's saying that this project should have gone ahead, you want to censor it. Exactly what you say he's saying it the point - informed debate. With students supplied materials to do so. Nobody, anywhere, not the school, not Sandorski, not me said the deniers are credible. Better tho to to expose the kids to what the deniers say, and show them the material that refutes them, than making it taboo and just preaching holocaust denial wrong, just accept our word on it. It's you that seems to be promoting blind obedience here.

What P_A#9 said.

And I never said their views should be censored. I said teach the history, teach the facts, and then say "and look at these revisionists and their pathetic attempt at racism". Because that's basically what it is. It doesn't compare to our progressive knowledge of science, it's fact! Documented, historical fact that the Holocaust (and Holomodor) took place.

I read an article a little while back that people who feel their lives are not under their own control tend to gravitate toward two things - religion or conspiracy theories. Promoting holocaust denial as some sort of alternate explanation, and debating that alternate explanation, gives it the faint glimmer that it might be real. And some who are not as good as others at critical thought end up becoming enamoured with the idea, and it spreads.

[andyt]

All very interesting, but the school board, as I understand it is doing exactly "teach the history, teach the facts, and then say "and look at these revisionists and their pathetic attempt at racism""

I'm basing this on what Sandorski said:

$1:

"...write an argumentative essay, based upon cited textual evidence whether or not you believe this was an actual event in history or merely a political scheme created to influence public emotion and gain wealth..."

Along with this Assignment, writings were provided as Sources. One source was Historically accurate, another was Conspiracy based. The Assignment was to gauge the Students Critical Thinking skills. The only real "controversy" here is a mixture of poor Media coverage and the inherent sensitivity of the Subject itself.

You really would benefit from having better Critical Thinking skills.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

All very interesting, but the school board, as I understand it is doing exactly "teach the history, teach the facts, and then say "and look at these revisionists and their pathetic attempt at racism""

I'm basing this on what Sandorski said:

$1:

"...write an argumentative essay, based upon cited textual evidence whether or not you believe this was an actual event in history or merely a political scheme created to influence public emotion and gain wealth..."

Along with this Assignment, writings were provided as Sources. One source was Historically accurate, another was Conspiracy based. The Assignment was to gauge the Students Critical Thinking skills. The only real "controversy" here is a mixture of poor Media coverage and the inherent sensitivity of the Subject itself.

You really would benefit from having better Critical Thinking skills.

And I'm going by what Fiddledog posted about the actual assignment:

$1:

The 18-page assignment instructions included three sources that students were told to use, including one that stated gassings in concentration camps were a “hoax” and that no evidence has shown Jews died in gas chambers.

“With all this money at stake for Israel, it is easy to comprehend why this Holocaust hoax is so secretly guarded,” states the source, which is a attributed to a webpage on biblebelievers.org.au. “In whatever way you can, please help shatter this profitable myth. It is time we stop sacrificing America’s welfare for the sake of Israel and spend our hard-earned dollars on Americans.”

$1:

The Los Angeles-area chapter of the Anti-Defamation League contacted the school district last week, saying the assignment was dangerous “given the large volume of misinformation” on Holocaust-denial websites.

“It is ADL’s general position that an exercise asking students to question whether the Holocaust happened has no academic value; it only gives legitimacy to the hateful and anti-Semitic promoters of Holocaust Denial,” read an email to the school district from ADL Associate Regional Director Matthew Friedman.

$1:

“Giving school children an assignment that asks them to question whether the holocaust occurred is inappropriate. These actions are insensitive to the millions who lost loved ones and to the many people around the world who have no tolerance for discrimination and genocide. I urge the Rialto Unified School District to use better judgment in the future and to take immediate action to put an end to this controversy and the damage it is causing to the district’s reputation.”

[andyt]

So I've read the links provided by FD, and no, it doesn't sound like the students were given sufficient background, ie had not studied beforehand why the denial sources were false as I had thought was the case. Of course that's not right, the students don't have the background to assess the validity of the conspiracy writings.

The Islam guy, by FD's own links, is a swell guy and had nothing to do with developing this material, it was a group of teachers. Nobody close to the event sees a larger conspiracy here.

Done right, this could have been a useful exercise, one that actually would make the students more resistant to believing the deniers.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

Done right, this could have been a useful exercise, one that actually would make the students more resistant to believing the deniers.

Agreed. But the historical facts and the holocaust deniers were given equal weight, and the students were to rely on their bullshit meter to detect the difference. Trouble is, their bullshit meter hasn't been calibrated yet. And obviously, there are grown ups that still don't have a calibrated bullshit meter and believe the holocaust denier theories to be true.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

andyt andyt:

Done right, this could have been a useful exercise, one that actually would make the students more resistant to believing the deniers.

Agreed. But the historical facts and the holocaust deniers were given equal weight, and the students were to rely on their bullshit meter to detect the difference. Trouble is, their bullshit meter hasn't been calibrated yet. And obviously, there are grown ups that still don't have a calibrated bullshit meter and believe the holocaust denier theories to be true.

Andy is a fine example of the type of people who deny the existence of fundamental truths. He hates the idea of facts that he doesn't agree with, he loathes the idea of having to memorize a body of reference knowledge (which must be fun when he comes to a traffic light and elects to 'challenge the authoritarian paradigm' that says it's a good idea to stop at a red light), and he consistently evidences a mercurial philosophy that can contradict itself in the same sentence while he supposes that there is no contradiction.

Were he a registered Conservative we'd think him mentally ill with such thoughts as he conveys to us.

Just because he is not a Conservative should not lessen the obvious diagnosis.