[CanadianJeff]

andyt andyt:

All right, let's go your way then. If prohibition worked, we should apply it to alcohol, since alcohol causes more societal ills than all illegal drugs combined. That should really improve society. Except they already ran that experiment, and it didn't work.

Straw man and not a surprise coming from you. In no way was I arguing that prohibition worked just that it wasn't the root cause of organized crime and certainly not youth gangs.

You may want to read what I write before responding next time with an argument I never made.

Oh and no one is arguing that legalizing pot wouldn't reduce crime for a time. The thing you can't seem to understand is the important second part of that statement....for a time.

It's in the very nature of organized crime to find new means of revenue when one stream dries up. There's good arguments for legalization of pot. The argument you are making is exceptionally flawed and not a good one.

[andyt]

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

andyt andyt:

All right, let's go your way then. If prohibition worked, we should apply it to alcohol, since alcohol causes more societal ills than all illegal drugs combined. That should really improve society. Except they already ran that experiment, and it didn't work.

Straw man and not a surprise coming from you. In no way was I arguing that prohibition worked just that it wasn't the root cause of organized crime and certainly not youth gangs.

You may want to read what I write before responding next time with an argument I never made.

Oh and no one is arguing that legalizing pot wouldn't reduce crime for a time. The thing you can't seem to understand is the important second part of that statement....for a time.

It's in the very nature of organized crime to find new means of revenue when one stream dries up. There's good arguments for legalization of pot. The argument you are making is exceptionally flawed and not a good one.

Root cause? Is that the issue? Did prohibition way enrich gangs, way increase their influence, and make them much larger? Youth gangs, actually one of the sources I quoted said youth gangs started with prohibition. I don't know, I wasn't there. But even if they didn't start with prohibition, I bet they increased with it right along with the adult gangs.

So what will organized crime turn to to replace the huge income from pot? You seem to know how this works, so let's hear it. If these other sources of income for them exist now, why aren't they exploiting them already? Too busy dealing drugs?

Legalizing pot won't end organized crime, it will just take a bite out of their profits. Seems like a good thing to me.

[CanadianJeff]

This has been said again and again and again in this thread so I'll state it one last time or frankly this is going to start looking insane.

If the argument that legalizing or decriminalizing one substance would substantially reduce organized crime we wouldn't have nearly the levels of organized crime we do today because it would have shrunk substantially after prohibition ended and never recovered.

If you legalize pot they will just move onto something else just like they did after prohibition. I'm not a physic and I don't know what form that would take but history has shown organized crime resourceful enough to invent something new or to push other types of substance to the forefront.

As I said before I'm all for legalizing pot but this argument is just stupid stupid stupid and you guys need to quit using a stupid argument.

There's plenty of great arguments for the legalization of the substance and I'd be more then happy to argue them another time and another place but your dead wrong here and it's time to just pull up your pants and realize you have lost this battle but the war goes on.

Bad argument last thing I'll say on the topic move on.

[Benn]

Curtman Curtman:

[
Dumb on crime doesn't work. Prohibition is their catalyst. It funds everything they do, prison is their university.

That's what was said about alcohol prohibition and the Mafia and gangs never went away once that was made legal again.

[andyt]

Tell it to the cops who make exactly that argument. It's certainly not the only facet that goes into the overall picture, but it's a part of it. The idea for legalization doesn't rest just on reducing crime, but even if it only reduces organized crime for a while, seems better than nothing to me.

[Benn]

This

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

These kids follow gangs because they often feel or have some disconnect to a healthy social life or have a lack of good family life. Organizing and maintaining new outreach programs that try to get these youth involved in healthier activities like sports or find them non abusive places they feel are home are the best approach.

I think you don't realize or understand that there is a HUGE difference in youth gangs compared to full scale adult organized crime like the Hells Angels.

The biggest problem with violence and street crime comes from the street gangs and many of them don't have enough money for a case of beer at the end of the week. One of the main reasons they are part of a gang is for the reasons mentioned above. Remove pot sales from the picture and membership won't change.

Besides, those street gangs (semi organized) and real crime gangs (organized) are not just going to open shops and sell pot legally if it becomes legal, or just say 'ahh shucks i guess I gotta get me a real job' and just quit their criminal ways. They are going to find a new, illegal, way to make money. Just like the Alcohol prohibition created mobsters and street gangs did after prohibition.

[OnTheIce]

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

As I said before I'm all for legalizing pot but this argument is just stupid stupid stupid and you guys need to quit using a stupid argument.

There's plenty of great arguments for the legalization of the substance and I'd be more then happy to argue them another time and another place but your dead wrong here and it's time to just pull up your pants and realize you have lost this battle but the war goes on.

Hit the nail on the head.

Andy/Curt...the problem isn't the message, it's the way you're trying to deliver it..

[Curtman]

Prohibition creates the low hanging fruit called black market drugs.

Billions of dollars will be spent on them regardless of how much we spend and how many lives we ruin in the war on drugs. We can give that to organized crime, or use it for public health and education.

What is the justification for continuing the expense of the war knowing that its a failure, that it makes drugs more easily accessible to kids, and that it funds organized crime?

OTI, you weren't going to comment in these threads anymore, what changed?

[andyt]

All of Uruguay must be wrong, since they legalized pot (with only govt selling it) specifically to combat crime. Kash Heed, former head of West Van Police and drug squad member must be wrong. That sherif from Washington state I quoted earlier must be wrong. The cops in LEAP must all be deluded. The BC mayors that urged legalization to combat crime must all be nuts.

Only OTI and CJ, they know.

[OnTheIce]

Curtman Curtman:

Prohibition creates the low hanging fruit called black market drugs.

Billions of dollars will be spent on them regardless of how much we spend and how many lives we ruin in the war on drugs. We can give that to organized crime, or use it for public health and education.

What is the justification for continuing the expense of the war knowing that its a failure, that it makes drugs more easily accessible to kids, and that it funds organized crime?

OTI, you weren't going to comment in these threads anymore, what changed?

I'm not discussing anything with you....that's what the stoner meme's were for. I enjoy a good meme.

I replied directly to andy, not you.

[Curtman]

Whatever works for you. Leave the silly graphics out of the thread please, the grownups are talking.

[OnTheIce]

Curtman Curtman:

Whatever works for you. Leave the silly graphics out of the thread please, the grownups are talking.

Coming from the guy that had a temper tantrum and left? :lol

Poor curt, always coming up short.

[Curtman]

Benn Benn:

Curtman Curtman:

[
Dumb on crime doesn't work. Prohibition is their catalyst. It funds everything they do, prison is their university.

That's what was said about alcohol prohibition and the Mafia and gangs never went away once that was made legal again.

The mafia and gangs didn't move on, they continued exploiting prohibition.

Organized crime would be where if alcohol prohibition continued? Better, or worse off?

[PluggyRug]

There has always been organised crime. There will always be organised crime.

Banning or legalising stuff just changes the methodology of the criminal collective mind.

[Regina]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

There has always been organised crime. There will always be organised crime.

Banning or legalising stuff just changes the methodology of the criminal collective mind.

But, but, but............that's not what the happy face chart says.