[Dragon-Dancer]

The best solution when it comes to firearms is to outright ban them across the board and then hand out licenses only to those who can prove a legitimate need for one based on the job they do. Police, Military, Border Security, Coast Guard, Fish and wildlife and related jobs probably qualify. Everyone else? where is the need? this makes enforcement much easier, if you carry without a license you are obviously up to no good.

I just don't buy the argument that mass availability of guns makes /anyone/ safer.

[2Cdo]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

So the idea of having qualified law-abiding people carrying weapons frightens you?

No, I just don't need to go to extreme measures in a Country with a low crime rate and a temporary spike in gun crime.

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Are you that ignorant to immediately dismiss an option while ignoring that it is working down south?

Since you've made the claim....

Provide me with some statistics on specific towns/cities in the US with open-carry laws only for certain people that have curbed crime.

If you claim it's working, surely there are an ample amount of stats for you to provide us.

They're have been more than enough studies and stats posted on this forum alone but with a closed mind you conveniently dismiss them.

[OnTheIce]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

They're have been more than enough studies and stats posted on this forum alone but with a closed mind you conveniently dismiss them.

More people than just me have dismissed your idea. Are they all close minded too?

You claimed that providing specific people concealed carry is "working" in the USA.

Time to put up or shut up. Back up your claim.

[raydan]

Crime in Canada, gun crime in particular, isn't that bad and we compare well to most countries. So let's stop the knee-jerking. There are places we could be putting put efforts... some communities and organized crime (including gangs) in particular.

Should there be a ban on handguns... no.
Open up at-large conceal/carry... no way.

I don't even like having someone with a pointy ended umbrella beside me, let alone a gun. Those that want to carry just want to compensate for something... what, I have no idea. If this isn't your case, I apologize... if it is, just admit it and we can move on.

[uwish]

Dragon-Dancer Dragon-Dancer:

The best solution when it comes to firearms is to outright ban them across the board and then hand out licenses only to those who can prove a legitimate need for one based on the job they do. Police, Military, Border Security, Coast Guard, Fish and wildlife and related jobs probably qualify. Everyone else? where is the need? this makes enforcement much easier, if you carry without a license you are obviously up to no good.

I just don't buy the argument that mass availability of guns makes /anyone/ safer.

how very liberal of you, tell the country that our hunting and trapping heritage is not Canadian and attempt at more social engineering. Sorry, I don't and won't buy that.

There are lots of city folks who don't 'need' a gas guzzling jacked-up truck, what's next are you going to tell them they can't have them because you don't think its a good idea??

[2Cdo]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

They're have been more than enough studies and stats posted on this forum alone but with a closed mind you conveniently dismiss them.

More people than just me have dismissed your idea. Are they all close minded too?

You claimed that providing specific people concealed carry is "working" in the USA.

Time to put up or shut up. Back up your claim.

[OnTheIce]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Time to put up or shut up. Back up your claim.

That's what I thought.

[uwish]

raydan raydan:

Crime in Canada, gun crime in particular, isn't that bad and we compare well to most countries. So let's stop the knee-jerking. There are places we could be putting put efforts... some communities and organized crime (including gangs) in particular.

Should there be a ban on handguns... no.
Open up at-large conceal/carry... no way.

I don't even like having someone with a pointy ended umbrella beside me, let alone a gun. Those that want to carry just want to compensate for something... what, I have no idea. If this isn't your case, I apologize... if it is, just admit it and we can move on.

the whole point of concealed carry is..you wouldn't know if the guy besides you is carrying. That's the point.

[raydan]

uwish uwish:

raydan raydan:

Crime in Canada, gun crime in particular, isn't that bad and we compare well to most countries. So let's stop the knee-jerking. There are places we could be putting put efforts... some communities and organized crime (including gangs) in particular.

Should there be a ban on handguns... no.
Open up at-large conceal/carry... no way.

I don't even like having someone with a pointy ended umbrella beside me, let alone a gun. Those that want to carry just want to compensate for something... what, I have no idea. If this isn't your case, I apologize... if it is, just admit it and we can move on.

the whole point of concealed carry is..you wouldn't know if the guy besides you is carrying. That's the point.

You have to say what you want to compensate for first, then you can argue the point.

[saturn_656]

Dragon-Dancer Dragon-Dancer:

The best solution when it comes to firearms is to outright ban them across the board and then hand out licenses only to those who can prove a legitimate need for one based on the job they do. Police, Military, Border Security, Coast Guard, Fish and wildlife and related jobs probably qualify. Everyone else? where is the need? this makes enforcement much easier, if you carry without a license you are obviously up to no good.

I just don't buy the argument that mass availability of guns makes /anyone/ safer.

Your comments display a total disregard for Canadians who live in rural areas, recreational hunters, sport shooters, etc.

[OnTheIce]

uwish uwish:

the whole point of concealed carry is..you wouldn't know if the guy besides you is carrying. That's the point.

And when gang bangers take a shot at another person, they don't know either...in fact, they probably suspect they have a gun on them too.

These shootings in Toronto specifically are youth-on-youth or gang-on-gang crime so allowing some old fart of a former cop to carry a gun does nothing. They aren't taking aim at a guy like that.

[saturn_656]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

And when gang bangers take a shot at another person, they don't know either...in fact, they probably suspect they have a gun on them too.

These shootings in Toronto specifically are youth-on-youth or gang-on-gang crime so allowing some old fart of a former cop to carry a gun does nothing. They aren't taking aim at a guy like that.

Given that these zeros tend to wound or kill innocent bystanders as much as they hit their intended targets, what they "aim at" seems to have reduced relevance.

[uwish]

uwish uwish:

I have posted the following many times. The links to the FBI crime datais there for you to do the math yourself.

Lets look at Texas. The actual number is 895 firearms homicides in Texas. (706 with handguns, 58 with rifles, 52 with shotguns).
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_20.html

However, we've seen from suicide substitution (fewer firearms means more people choose hanging as suicide technique) that other 'weapons' are quickly used if there's motivation, it's certain that the motivation to murder is the causative factor in homicide and not the presence of a gun. For example, there are 68 million guns in texas, and assuming one shot per gun per day, we don't see 24 billion people being killed in texas every year.




It is true that the violent crime rate is declining in both The United States and Canada. However, the rate in The U.S. is declining one third faster, most likely from more Americans defending themselves from crime.
Actually, it's 3 times faster.



Canada: 1065 in 1992
Canada: 980 in 2007
slope: (1065 - 980) / (2007 - 1992) = 85 / 15 = 5.6

USA: 758.2 in 1991
USA 466.9 in 2007
slope: (758.2 - 466.9) / (2007 - 1991) = 291.3 / 16 = 18.2

slope ratio: 18.2 / 5.6 = 3.25


This means in the US, their crime rate is falling 3x faster than ours. Florida, the first state in the union to adopt concealed carry laws, is dropping 5 x faster.

And if you look at the dates, in Florida alone (presented hear only as part of the US totals) began to accelerate within the SAME YEAR THE STATE ADOPTED CCW LAWS.

It doesn't get any more clear than that!

What am I trying to say??? more gun laws = more crime.

[raydan]

Can we bring back duels?
No reason, just think it would be fun.

While researching this, I found this interesting... and funny story.

$1:

1873: The last duel in what is now Canada occurred in August 1873, in a field near St. John's, Newfoundland (which was not Canadian territory at the time). The duellists, Mr. Dooley and Mr. Healey, once friends, had fallen in love with the same young lady, and had quarrelled bitterly over her. One challenged the other to a duel, and they quickly arranged a time and place. No one else was present that morning except the two men's seconds. Dooley and Healey were determined to proceed in the 'honourable' way, but as they stood back-to-back with their pistols raised, they must have questioned what they were doing. Nerves gave way to terror as they slowly began pacing away from each other. When they had counted off the standard ten yards, they turned and fired. Dooley hit the ground immediately. Healey, believing he had killed Dooley, was seized with horror. But Dooley had merely fainted; the seconds confessed they had so feared the outcome that they loaded the pistols with blanks. Although this was a serious breach of duelling etiquette, both opponents gratefully agreed that honour had indeed been satisfied.

[Dragon-Dancer]

uwish uwish:

Dragon-Dancer Dragon-Dancer:

The best solution when it comes to firearms is to outright ban them across the board and then hand out licenses only to those who can prove a legitimate need for one based on the job they do. Police, Military, Border Security, Coast Guard, Fish and wildlife and related jobs probably qualify. Everyone else? where is the need? this makes enforcement much easier, if you carry without a license you are obviously up to no good.

I just don't buy the argument that mass availability of guns makes /anyone/ safer.

How very liberal of you, tell the country that our hunting and trapping heritage is not Canadian and attempt at more social engineering. Sorry, I don't and won't buy that.

There are lots of city folks who don't 'need' a gas guzzling jacked-up truck, what's next are you going to tell them they can't have them because you don't think its a good idea??

Honestly? if I could yes, too many pointless large vehicles on the road in the hands of people who have no real use for them. Hunting and trapping heritage is a great way of putting it. It's archaic and in modern times here in this country, completely unnecessary. That being said you don't need a gun to hunt or trap.

It's a pipe dream, the same as a total firearms ban but it doesn't mean I can't dream.