[raydan]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I don't drink. I have Celiac disease and can't drink.

I don't smoke.

I don't do any drugs. I have smoked weed when I was a teenager.

I have explained numerous times my thoughts on booze/pot. I have said that I think booze should be illegal, but turning back the clock is next to impossible and allowing more drugs to be legalized for the sake of hypocrisy makes little sense to me...in my opinion.

We have turned the clock back...
Booze was illegal in the past and it didn't work.
Pot was legal in the past, is now illegal and it's not working.

[sandorski]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

andyt andyt:

So far three people have challenged you to answer why you want pot to be illegal but not alcohol, and you haven't answered. Doesn't do much for your argument, does it?

It's easy andy, he doesn't like pot therefore it must remain illegal whereas he likes to have a drink of two so it must remain legal!

I don't drink. I have Celiac disease and can't drink.

I don't smoke.

I don't do any drugs. I have smoked weed when I was a teenager.

I have explained numerous times my thoughts on booze/pot. I have said that I think booze should be illegal, but turning back the clock is next to impossible and allowing more drugs to be legalized for the sake of hypocrisy makes little sense to me...in my opinion.

Using your criteria, we should have Prohibition against Sobriety.

[OnTheIce]

raydan raydan:

We have turned the clock back...
Booze was illegal in the past and it didn't work.
Pot was legal in the past, is now illegal and it's not working.

Well said.

So what do you propose?

What do we do with the common drugs used on the streets today?

[Curtman]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Curtman Curtman:

The thing you've missed is, its illegal to drive drunk or stoned under prohibition, and legalization. It should be illegal to be when caring for an infant too. You're arguing against something that isnt even relevant to the prohibition discussion.

No, I'm arguing your claim that pot has no victims. Apparently it does.

No. Pot was not driving the car. It can't, its just a plant. You should just prohibit stupidity, and be done with it.

[raydan]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

raydan raydan:

We have turned the clock back...
Booze was illegal in the past and it didn't work.
Pot was legal in the past, is now illegal and it's not working.

Well said.

So what do you propose?

What do we do with the common drugs used on the streets today?

I'm sick of government trying to protect people from themselves.
Does drinking hurt others, not just the drinker... sure it does, same for drugs.
But also gambling, cheating, smoking, dangerous sports, unprotected sex and suicide.
Let's criminalize all of them.

But we know it won't work. Let people do the stupid things they do, give them support and help if they WANT the help, and help the others that suffer because of them.

[2Cdo]

Curtman Curtman:

No. Pot was not driving the car. It can't, its just a plant. You should just prohibit stupidity, and be done with it.

I wonder if you feel the same way about guns?

[andyt]

The govt should put the huge tax revenues they would collect from legal pot into rehab facilities for all drug and alcohol problems. We are woefully short of those. As well fund mental health care and facilities.

As for those that don't want help, I like the drug court approach. You get a choice between rehab and jail if you commit a crime because of your addiction. But, for that to work, rehab needs to be serious of of sufficient duration, not just a few days or a month. With supports provided when they get out. And for that to work, we need tougher sentencing for crimes caused by drugs, not a slap on the wrist. Of course I'm talking about property crime or maybe mild violence. You kill somebody, rehab ain't gonna cut it.

[Curtman]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Curtman Curtman:

No. Pot was not driving the car. It can't, its just a plant. You should just prohibit stupidity, and be done with it.

I wonder if you feel the same way about guns?

Are you asking if I think it would be a good idea to ban guns? Absolutely not. I think its fair to hold at least someone accountable for their proper storage and use, but the Harperites took that away from us.

[Guy_Fawkes]

I would be all for legalizing it, if there was an accurate way (besides a blood test) to prove someone is intoxicated.

[andyt]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

I would be all for legalizing it, if there was an accurate way (besides a blood test) to prove someone is intoxicated.

Why, for roadside screening? You don't think people drive stoned now? It would still be illegal to be impaired while driving, just as it is to be impaired by lack of sleep. There's no accurate way to prove that one either. Just behavioral tests.

And I'll take my chances among a bunch of stoner drivers over drunk drivers any day of he week. Hell, it might actually improve safety for everybody as the sober road racers have to come to a full stop behind some guy going "wow, I never realized how beautiful a stop sign really is." I think the biggest danger from stoner drivers is reaching down to retrieve the Cheetos bag they dropped on the floor.

Actually a test found that chronic pot smokers drover better when stoned than when not.

[Guy_Fawkes]

andyt andyt:

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

I would be all for legalizing it, if there was an accurate way (besides a blood test) to prove someone is intoxicated.

Why, for roadside screening? You don't think people drive stoned now? It would still be illegal to be impaired while driving, just as it is to be impaired by lack of sleep. There's no accurate way to prove that one either. Just behavioral tests.

I am sure people do drive stoned now, but that number would increase if you legalized pot. I just dont want my blood taken because a cop suspects I am high behind the wheel. If you legalize pot something will likely be put in place allowing an invasive test like that.

andyt andyt:

And I'll take my chances among a bunch of stoner drivers over drunk drivers any day of he week. Hell, it might actually improve safety for everybody as the sober road racers have to come to a full stop behind some guy going "wow, I never realized how beautiful a stop sign really is." I think the biggest danger from stoner drivers is reaching down to retrieve the Cheetos bag they dropped on the floor.

Actually a test found that chronic pot smokers drover better when stoned than when not.

Where is this test you speak of? If the answer is "I saw it on Spike TV..." or something similar, dont bother.

[andyt]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

I am sure people do drive stoned now, but that number would increase if you legalized pot. I just dont want my blood taken because a cop suspects I am high behind the wheel. If you legalize pot something will likely be put in place allowing an invasive test like that.

How much would the increase be? How many people don't smoke pot now for the sole reason it's illegal, and would take it up in a heartbeat if it was legalized. Cite references. (you know, like you asked me to do below)

They're not going to go with mandatory blood testing. For pot all it can do is establish you were in a room where pot was being smoked up to one month ago.

andyt andyt:

And I'll take my chances among a bunch of stoner drivers over drunk drivers any day of he week. Hell, it might actually improve safety for everybody as the sober road racers have to come to a full stop behind some guy going "wow, I never realized how beautiful a stop sign really is." I think the biggest danger from stoner drivers is reaching down to retrieve the Cheetos bag they dropped on the floor.

Actually a test found that chronic pot smokers drover better when stoned than when not.

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

Where is this test you speak of? If the answer is "I saw it on Spike TV..." or something similar, dont bother.

$1:

DETROIT (1270 Talk Radio) Are stoned drivers better drivers? Yes, they are, according to attorney Matt Abel who made the case during a roundtable chat Friday about marijuana legalization on Charlie Langton’s Talk Radio 1270 morning show.

Abel, a metro Detroit criminal defense lawyer, is leading the petition drive to decriminalize marijuana in Michigan for adults 21 years old and over. He claimed during the roundtable that studies show high drivers are sometimes safer on the road than those who are sober.

The discussion was held on Friday, April 20, which is unofficially known as “National Pot Smokers Day.”

“Driving studies show people are safer drivers on THC (the active component in marijuana),” Abel said. “There are studies
that show that. Safer than sober because they drive slower and more carefully.”

Is he right? Abel does have some science to back him up: A May 2010 study by “The Journal Of Psychoactive Drugs” found volunteer pot smokers “performed virtually the same after smoking marijuana as they did sober and/or after smoking bunk pot.”

“No differences were found during the baseline driving segment (and the) collision avoidance scenarios,” scientists reported.

Another study from December 2011 by private research institute IZA found a nearly 9 percent drop in fatal traffic crashes in 16 states that have legalized marijuana. The study found that was probably due to less drunken driving in those states. See the report here.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/04/20/ ... e-say-yes/

He's referencing new studies, the one I read was years ago.

$1:

There's yet another study now that concludes marijuana users are better drivers, especially when compared with those who use alcohol behind the wheel. Twenty years of study has concluded that marijuana smokers may actually be getting a bad rap and that they may actually have fewer accidents than other drivers.

The website 4AutoinsuranceQuote.org put a press release on the study, which "looks at statistics regarding accidents, traffic violations, and insurance prices," and "seeks to dispel the though that 'driving while stoned' is dangerous."
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2012/04/au ... _safer.php

$1:

In high-density urban traffic...THC did not impair driving performance yet the subjects thought it had." Marijuana And Actual Driving Performance." Also, review of the role of drug use in fatal accidents reported, "[T]here is little if any evidence to indicate that drivers who have used marijuana alone are any more likely to cause serious accidents than drug free drivers...
...One of the program's objectives was to determine whether it is possible to predict driving impairment by plasma concentrations of THC and/or its metabolite, THC-COOH, in single samples. The answer is very clear: it is not. Plasma of drivers showing substantial impairment in these studies contained both high and low THC concentrations; and drivers with high plasma concentrations showed substantial, but also no impairment, and even some improvement."

So there you have it: according to the U.S. Government, smoking weed actually makes some people better drivers.

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailywee ... d_driv.php

[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

I am sure people do drive stoned now, but that number would increase if you legalized pot. I just dont want my blood taken because a cop suspects I am high behind the wheel. If you legalize pot something will likely be put in place allowing an invasive test like that.

How much would the increase be? How many people don't smoke pot now for the sole reason it's illegal, and would take it up in a heartbeat if it was legalized. Cite references. (you know, like you asked me to do below)

They're not going to go with mandatory blood testing. For pot all it can do is establish you were in a room where pot was being smoked up to one month ago.

Actually, that depends on a few things like, if yer testing for THC or THC metabolites. However, the results won't necessarily show as positive just because you were in a room where some weed was smoked. According to a U.S. Army study, the amount of secondhand cannabis smoke needed to cause a false positive result is quite large indeed, and would require being sealed in an unventilated car or small room filled with marijuana smokers for several hours.

[Gunnair]

Curtman Curtman:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Curtman Curtman:

The thing you've missed is, its illegal to drive drunk or stoned under prohibition, and legalization. It should be illegal to be when caring for an infant too. You're arguing against something that isnt even relevant to the prohibition discussion.

No, I'm arguing your claim that pot has no victims. Apparently it does.

No. Pot was not driving the car. It can't, its just a plant. You should just prohibit stupidity, and be done with it.

Sounds a bit like, guns don't kill people, people kill people.

You sound like an NRA type - well the pot version of.

[Zipperfish]

I don't believe for a moment that somebody high can drive better than someone sober.