[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

That part of the plan isn't up for debate. It's either below or above ground on Eglinton.

Not sure why they'd not be open to third ideas that may be better, but if that's the choice, "Eglinton it is", I'd say.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Have you ever spent time on any of these roads during rush hour?

All major roads heading into Toronto...Lawrence, Eglinton, Ellesmere, Kingston Rd are very busy.

Eglinton IS a major artery both into and out of Toronto....and across Toronto.

My sister lives at Keele and Eglinton and my in-laws are in Ajax, so I use both Eglinton and Kingston quite often, though rarely at rush hour. Eglinton is already one lane in several spots between Keele and Kingston road, so it's not what I'd call an artery. I use that route BECAUSE it's not a busy commuter route.

I really couldn't care what Toronto builds. In fact, I'd rather they built nothing and used that money for province-wide needs. I'm sick of Toronto being a black hole of provincial spending. Why should my tax dollars pay for Torontonians' municipal infrastructure? Isn't that what municipal taxes are for? Fuck Toronto.

[Unsound]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Fuck Toronto.

You must've spent some time out west

[Lemmy]

Unsound Unsound:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Fuck Toronto.

You must've spent some time out west

I never understood why Westerners would hate Toronto. Their beef should be with Ottawa, shouldn't it? Westerners have a lot fewer reasons to hate Toronto than non-Toronto Ontarians. We're the ones being shaken by our ankles to fund the shithole.

[Unsound]

Honestly, I don't hate Toronto. I do think however that when westerners talk about hating Toronto, it has a lot to do with the Torontonians we have to listen to. Whether they're on tv talking about their "world class" city, or whether they're in the parking lot at timmies telling native edmontonians how much our city sucks compared to toronto...

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

My sister lives at Keele and Eglinton and my in-laws are in Ajax, so I use both Eglinton and Kingston quite often, though rarely at rush hour. Eglinton is already one lane in several spots between Keele and Kingston road, so it's not what I'd call an artery. I use that route BECAUSE it's not a busy commuter route.

I really couldn't care what Toronto builds. In fact, I'd rather they built nothing and used that money for province-wide needs. I'm sick of Toronto being a black hole of provincial spending. Why should my tax dollars pay for Torontonians' municipal infrastructure? Isn't that what municipal taxes are for? Fuck Toronto.

Surely you'd know that the debate isn't about what's West of Laird, including Keele, it's what's happening East of Laird.

Between Keele and Laird it's underground (where there are less lanes for traffic) ...and Eglinton isn't a 1 lane road anywhere East of Laird.

In regards to your funding argument...let's have Toronto keep all the tax dollars it sends to the Province and see how quick "small town" Ontario bitches when they get dick all.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Surely you'd know that the debate isn't about what's West of Laird, including Keele, it's what's happening East of Laird.

Between Keele and Laird it's underground (where there are less lanes for traffic) ...and Eglinton isn't a 1 lane road anywhere East of Laird.

I only mentioned the west end 'cause that's where my journey on Eglinton begins. And Eglinton may be two lanes wide all the way across but one of those lanes allows parking in a bunch of places between Midland and Markham. I always seem to get cut off by taxis every place where it switches from 2 lanes of traffic to one lane of traffic and one of parked cars.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

In regards to your funding argument...let's have Toronto keep all the tax dollars it sends to the Province and see how quick "small town" Ontario bitches when they get dick all.

We already get dick all.

[Tricks]

Oh god Kingston makes me want to gouge my eyes out during rush hour.

[Khar]

$1:

In regards to your funding argument...let's have Toronto keep all the tax dollars it sends to the Province and see how quick "small town" Ontario bitches when they get dick all.

Would we get to keep our money too? Because your property taxes in 2010 only managed to meet a third of your 9.6 billion operating budget. Unfortunately, those of us who grew up in, say, rural Ontario, London, Guelph, Windsor, even Kingston, are used to being bled dry so the GTA can get the money it needs.

There's a reason your 9.4 billion dollar operating budget for 2012 includes such things as "Provincial Funding increases" under new revenue, and it even includes a handy pie chart to show that provincial transfers from Ontario is 1.8 billion dollars this year too. You guys even get Federal transfers, and some subsidies from governments across Canada. Together, this alone turns out to depend on 24% of your funding needs, as seen on page 30 of the official Toronto budget report. This has been consistent for as long as I looked back in Toronto's online records.

In other words, you guys are already indebted to Ontario as a whole -- I remember in the nineties that the rest of us were getting bled dry to support Toronto workers, unions or projects, and it got a lot of people (in London, at least) riled up. Any new projects would require the support of outside governments at the least to be made even feasible. This is an unfortunate, and simple, reality of Toronto's situation, and something which is endemic to the majority of operating major cities out there. We like them for their economic power, but not for their income for taxes -- once you get to a few million citizens, then major cities become a black hole of money, generally, that the rest of the country has to pay for to upkeep.

Hence, Lemmy is entirely correct, in my opinion. We don't even get dick all -- because at least then we'd be getting some dick. Although Toronto does enjoy screwing the rest of Ontario when it suits them so I guess we do get that. Sometimes it's nice to be living out here in the West, even though I miss water and trees. I admit to having Toronto relatives who behave like the stereotypical Torontonians and hence I despise them.

[bootlegga]

Lemmy Lemmy:

I never understood why Westerners would hate Toronto. Their beef should be with Ottawa, shouldn't it? Westerners have a lot fewer reasons to hate Toronto than non-Toronto Ontarians. We're the ones being shaken by our ankles to fund the shithole.

It's not hatred as much as it is annoyance at its arrogance. Many Torontonians (?), because of its size, economy, etc seem to feel Toronto is the best at everything. I agree that it is number 1 in a lot of things, but Toronto is not the be all, end all many proponents make it out to be. I've visited a couple of times and loved the city, but I don't see where the arrogance comes from. IMHO, Toronto isn't world class by any stretch of the imagination. Paris, London, Tokyo, New York, now those are world class cities - Toronto just seemed like a bigger Edmonton on the shore of a big lake. Nice, but hardly mind blowing in the way that those other cities are.

Sports is an excellent example of that arrogance. I find it annoying when CBC shows a Maple Leafs game instead of a Senators game, or when TSN decides to suddenly broadcast a Leafs game instead of a Flames game, or how Sportscentre shows all the Toronto's teams results (Leafs, Jays, and Raptors) before showing any other Canadian teams. I understand why networks do it (pandering to their #1 audience), but it doesn't make me like it one bit. Things like that have earned TSN the moniker Toronto Sports Network out west and it's a big reason why many Westerners prefer Rogers Sportsnet, because it isn't always biased towards Toronto the way TSN is.

Finally, idiots like Mel Lastman, Rob Ford, etc don't do you any favours, just like Klein didn't do us any favours back east.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

And Eglinton may be two lanes wide all the way across but one of those lanes allows parking in a bunch of places between Midland and Markham. I always seem to get cut off by taxis every place where it switches from 2 lanes of traffic to one lane of traffic and one of parked cars.

Seems like you're confused.

There's no parking on Eglinton between Midland and Markham in either direction. It's 6 lanes wide with a centre turn lane.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Seems like you're confused.

There's no parking on Eglinton between Midland and Markham in either direction. It's 6 lanes wide with a centre turn lane.

Maybe. When did they widen it?

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Unsound Unsound:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Fuck Toronto.

You must've spent some time out west

I never understood why Westerners would hate Toronto. Their beef should be with Ottawa, shouldn't it? Westerners have a lot fewer reasons to hate Toronto than non-Toronto Ontarians. We're the ones being shaken by our ankles to fund the shithole.

The beef is with anything east of the Rockies.

[OnTheIce]

Khar Khar:

Would we get to keep our money too? Because your property taxes in 2010 only managed to meet a third of your 9.6 billion operating budget. Unfortunately, those of us who grew up in, say, rural Ontario, London, Guelph, Windsor, even Kingston, are used to being bled dry so the GTA can get the money it needs.

There's a reason your 9.4 billion dollar operating budget for 2012 includes such things as "Provincial Funding increases" under new revenue, and it even includes a handy pie chart to show that provincial transfers from Ontario is 1.8 billion dollars this year too. You guys even get Federal transfers, and some subsidies from governments across Canada. Together, this alone turns out to depend on 24% of your funding needs, as seen on page 30 of the official Toronto budget report. This has been consistent for as long as I looked back in Toronto's online records.

In other words, you guys are already indebted to Ontario as a whole -- I remember in the nineties that the rest of us were getting bled dry to support Toronto workers, unions or projects, and it got a lot of people (in London, at least) riled up. Any new projects would require the support of outside governments at the least to be made even feasible. This is an unfortunate, and simple, reality of Toronto's situation, and something which is endemic to the majority of operating major cities out there. We like them for their economic power, but not for their income for taxes -- once you get to a few million citizens, then major cities become a black hole of money, generally, that the rest of the country has to pay for to upkeep.

Hence, Lemmy is entirely correct, in my opinion. We don't even get dick all -- because at least then we'd be getting some dick. Although Toronto does enjoy screwing the rest of Ontario when it suits them so I guess we do get that. Sometimes it's nice to be living out here in the West, even though I miss water and trees. I admit to having Toronto relatives who behave like the stereotypical Torontonians and hence I despise them.

"you guys"?

I don't live in Toronto.

We, those who live in Municipalities outside Toronto, aren't bled dry for the sake of Toronto, we'd be paying the same Provincial tax regardless of the state of Toronto.

Further, although we in the suburbs pay more for property tax, we enjoy better roads, facilities and infrastructure.

I don't doubt Toronto is a financial mess. Property taxes are brutally low and yet, there's no desire to bring them up to a level that keeps the City solvent.

Municipalities in Ontario get billions from the Province for various programs, to suggest otherwise isn't being truthful.

[BeaverFever]

..East of the Lakehead

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Seems like you're confused.

There's no parking on Eglinton between Midland and Markham in either direction. It's 6 lanes wide with a centre turn lane.

Maybe. When did they widen it?

Eglinton has been that wide since the 1960's.

The area you're thinking of it between Weston and Laird...it's been like that forever with the parking on either side.

There's no parking at all on Eglinton anywhere East of Laird Dr.