[Brenda]

jeff744 jeff744:

Brenda Brenda:

But she just moved to Saskatchewan to work and her family is rural NS (or BC, whichever ), remember, so she doesn't have family to help her out. Also, the father of her children is an unemployed alcoholic truck driver, who became an alcoholic after he got in an accident (sober) that killed people, while he was on the road for work. She had to leave him for the sake of her children...

(See, it is not always black and white. People have stories, baggage...)

So she moved to Saskatchewan for employment, but cannot raise her kids at the same time? Then the responsible thing is to give them up to somebody that can, hell, she could make a little side cash by babysitting while other parents worked and then work to weekends while they look after her kids on the weekends until they start going to school and she can work while they are away. Making exceptions for a few leaves it open to abuse by the people that had two kids to the deadbeat everyone around her said would leave her high and dry and was surprised when he finally did and refuses to pay child support.

He was a respected truck driver until he hit a car and killed the people inside. He could not handle that and became an alcoholic.

Let me guess. You have no kids.

Seriously, f*ck you. "give them up to somebody that can raise them". Are you out of your fucking mind???

[Canadian_Mind]

Brenda Brenda:

Let me guess. You have no kids.

Seriously, f*ck you. "give them up to somebody that can raise them". Are you out of your fucking mind???

Who says she doesn't have a family member or friend that can look after their kids while she gets up and on her feet?

[andyt]

jeff744 jeff744:

So she moved to Saskatchewan for employment, but cannot raise her kids at the same time? Then the responsible thing is to give them up to somebody that can, hell, she could make a little side cash by babysitting while other parents worked and then work to weekends while they look after her kids on the weekends until they start going to school and she can work while they are away. Making exceptions for a few leaves it open to abuse by the people that had two kids to the deadbeat everyone around her said would leave her high and dry and was surprised when he finally did and refuses to pay child support.

I bet nobody wants to sit next to you at the NDP conventions.

[andyt]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Brenda Brenda:

Let me guess. You have no kids.

Seriously, f*ck you. "give them up to somebody that can raise them". Are you out of your fucking mind???

Who says she doesn't have a family member or friend that can look after their kids while she gets up and on her feet?

Well, Brenda for one.

[Canadian_Mind]

andyt andyt:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Brenda Brenda:

Let me guess. You have no kids.

Seriously, f*ck you. "give them up to somebody that can raise them". Are you out of your fucking mind???

Who says she doesn't have a family member or friend that can look after their kids while she gets up and on her feet?

Who says she does?

I'm pretty sure a single mother of 2 children with no family and no friends to help her out is the exception, not the norm.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Brenda Brenda:

jeff744 jeff744:

Brenda Brenda:

But she just moved to Saskatchewan to work and her family is rural NS (or BC, whichever ), remember, so she doesn't have family to help her out. Also, the father of her children is an unemployed alcoholic truck driver, who became an alcoholic after he got in an accident (sober) that killed people, while he was on the road for work. She had to leave him for the sake of her children...

(See, it is not always black and white. People have stories, baggage...)

So she moved to Saskatchewan for employment, but cannot raise her kids at the same time? Then the responsible thing is to give them up to somebody that can, hell, she could make a little side cash by babysitting while other parents worked and then work to weekends while they look after her kids on the weekends until they start going to school and she can work while they are away. Making exceptions for a few leaves it open to abuse by the people that had two kids to the deadbeat everyone around her said would leave her high and dry and was surprised when he finally did and refuses to pay child support.

He was a respected truck driver until he hit a car and killed the people inside. He could not handle that and became an alcoholic.

Let me guess. You have no kids.

Seriously, f*ck you. "give them up to somebody that can raise them". Are you out of your fucking mind???

Seriously Brenda, somebody else is already raising them if you hand them off to a daycare for 8 hours a day or more.

[andyt]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

I'm pretty sure a single mother of 2 children with no family and no friends to help her out is the exception, not the norm.

Really? No childcare problems in Canada at all, huh? Even for two parent families, never mind single parents.

[Gunnair]

Wow, what's with hard right Liberals and NDP types these days? I'm feeling decidedly left of the lefties.

[Brenda]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Brenda Brenda:

Let me guess. You have no kids.

Seriously, f*ck you. "give them up to somebody that can raise them". Are you out of your fucking mind???

Who says she doesn't have a family member or friend that can look after their kids while she gets up and on her feet?

I did. That was the hypothetical situation I sketched.

[Brenda]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Brenda Brenda:

jeff744 jeff744:

So she moved to Saskatchewan for employment, but cannot raise her kids at the same time? Then the responsible thing is to give them up to somebody that can, hell, she could make a little side cash by babysitting while other parents worked and then work to weekends while they look after her kids on the weekends until they start going to school and she can work while they are away. Making exceptions for a few leaves it open to abuse by the people that had two kids to the deadbeat everyone around her said would leave her high and dry and was surprised when he finally did and refuses to pay child support.

He was a respected truck driver until he hit a car and killed the people inside. He could not handle that and became an alcoholic.

Let me guess. You have no kids.

Seriously, f*ck you. "give them up to somebody that can raise them". Are you out of your fucking mind???

Seriously Brenda, somebody else is already raising them if you hand them off to a daycare for 8 hours a day or more.

No, you are paying someone to watch them and hope they will teach them something, but they are not raising them. That is not their job, and that is not what Jeff meant either.

[jeff744]

andyt andyt:

jeff744 jeff744:

So she moved to Saskatchewan for employment, but cannot raise her kids at the same time? Then the responsible thing is to give them up to somebody that can, hell, she could make a little side cash by babysitting while other parents worked and then work to weekends while they look after her kids on the weekends until they start going to school and she can work while they are away. Making exceptions for a few leaves it open to abuse by the people that had two kids to the deadbeat everyone around her said would leave her high and dry and was surprised when he finally did and refuses to pay child support.

I bet nobody wants to sit next to you at the NDP conventions.

There is a difference between blissfully believing there is always money to throw at a problem to keep a family together and realizing that at some point you must make sacrifices. If you are a single parent living on welfare while trying to raise two kids without an income and unable or barely able to make ends meet (I know of a number of single parents, all are working because welfare cannot support them alone) then you need to either choose between employment and keeping the kids. Starving is not good for children.

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

I'm pretty sure a single mother of 2 children with no family and no friends to help her out is the exception, not the norm.

Really? No childcare problems in Canada at all, huh? Even for two parent families, never mind single parents.

Of course not. And it is free too. And, as a 2 parent family, one can always work nights while the other is with the kids and the other works days so the nightshift worker will be with the kids. NO CLUE when one gets to sleep, but whatever.

From what I read here, children are disposable. And then they complain that "kids these days" are so not well mannered.

[Brenda]

jeff744 jeff744:

andyt andyt:

jeff744 jeff744:

So she moved to Saskatchewan for employment, but cannot raise her kids at the same time? Then the responsible thing is to give them up to somebody that can, hell, she could make a little side cash by babysitting while other parents worked and then work to weekends while they look after her kids on the weekends until they start going to school and she can work while they are away. Making exceptions for a few leaves it open to abuse by the people that had two kids to the deadbeat everyone around her said would leave her high and dry and was surprised when he finally did and refuses to pay child support.

I bet nobody wants to sit next to you at the NDP conventions.

There is a difference between blissfully believing there is always money to throw at a problem to keep a family together and realizing that at some point you must make sacrifices. If you are a single parent living on welfare while trying to raise two kids without an income and unable or barely able to make ends meet (I know of a number of single parents, all are working because welfare cannot support them alone) then you need to either choose between employment and keeping the kids. Starving is not good for children.

Yeah, lets throw the kids away.

[jeff744]

Brenda Brenda:

jeff744 jeff744:

Brenda Brenda:

But she just moved to Saskatchewan to work and her family is rural NS (or BC, whichever ), remember, so she doesn't have family to help her out. Also, the father of her children is an unemployed alcoholic truck driver, who became an alcoholic after he got in an accident (sober) that killed people, while he was on the road for work. She had to leave him for the sake of her children...

(See, it is not always black and white. People have stories, baggage...)

So she moved to Saskatchewan for employment, but cannot raise her kids at the same time? Then the responsible thing is to give them up to somebody that can, hell, she could make a little side cash by babysitting while other parents worked and then work to weekends while they look after her kids on the weekends until they start going to school and she can work while they are away. Making exceptions for a few leaves it open to abuse by the people that had two kids to the deadbeat everyone around her said would leave her high and dry and was surprised when he finally did and refuses to pay child support.

He was a respected truck driver until he hit a car and killed the people inside. He could not handle that and became an alcoholic.

Let me guess. You have no kids.

Seriously, f*ck you. "give them up to somebody that can raise them". Are you out of your fucking mind???

So instead we should foot the full bill for a single mother of two unwilling to give up time with her kids so that she can support them? You cannot expect everyone to supply everything for you, you have to make a sacrifice regarding the kids. There are a lot of solutions short of giving them up but if none of them work or your refuse one, then yes, you should give up your kids if you cannot make ends meet without starving everyone.

[jeff744]

Brenda Brenda:

No, you are paying someone to watch them and hope they will teach them something, but they are not raising them. That is not their job, and that is not what Jeff meant either.

If you are not willing to send them to a daycare (pending the lack of family/friends) while you work (very few jobs will put you at a loss on that) so that you can make ends meet then I hope you are either willing to live on peanuts with your kids (who will suffer from lack of proper nutrients) or give them to a family that can actually afford to feed the child properly. Loving your kids isn't always as straightforward as keeping them no matter how hard it gets, it is also acknowledging when others can look after them better than you can.