[BartSimpson]

desertdude desertdude:

On the otherhand I also have no problem if they put blanket ban on anything religious, because for Muslims, Islam is very flexible and there are always alternatives available.

With that being the case then the Muslims in Toronto won't mind doing their prayers after school and off of school grounds?

desertdude desertdude:

But you also have to look at whose is making all the noise, hate group thugs like the JDL and the strictly anti Muslim Hindu Advocacy.

The JDL and the Canadian Hindu Advocacy (CHA) did not come into existence spontaneously. Both groups trace to people who share a history of oppression, persecution, and sometimes even genocide.

The Jewish sensitivity to Muslim oppression is nothing new.

But the Hindu sensitivity goes back a ways and since some on here won't grasp it:

http://www.kashmir-information.com/wail ... hap10.html

$1:

With the transformation of political power in Kashmir 1339 A.D. the temples and cultural symbols of Hindu style came under severe Muslim onslaught. The Muslim rulers steeped in Islamic orientation with commitments to the forcible expansion of Islam desecrated, plundered and despoiled the temples and shrines manifesting the character of Hindu faith and thought. As amply supported by historical evidences Kashmir with its protracted history dating back to antiquity has been a Buddhist, Vaishnavite and Shaivite seat and as such has witnessed amazing levels of cultural growth and flowering with their visible imprint on viharas, caityas and temples dotting every inch of Kashmir soil. As has been the common practice with Muslims a concerted campaign of bigotry was generated with the state apparatus in the lead role to defile and destroy temples and other cultural expressions of Hindus fascistically declaring them as un-Islamic thereby sealing any intellectual effort to probe their aesthetics and cultural value. The destructive campaign as a result of religious Repossessions and paranoia has continued with no relent with a priori objective of dismantling and annihilating a cultural ethos suffused with the ingredients of tolerance, assimilation and wider vision of understanding. With narrow perspectives in view and hate syndrome as a motivating factor no efforts have been spared to scatter the bacilli of iconoclasm to establish Muslim cultural domination coupled with obscurantism giving rise to an ethos antithetical to the ideals of harmony, coexistence and peace.

The site goes much further with this.

It's nothing I have not heard or seen before. When I was at Intel the animosity between the Muslims and Hindus was right out there for everyone to see and terse words were frequently exchanged.

Bottom line is that Muslims detest the Hindus and relations between Islam and Hinduism are best described as tense.

Not like I'm all pro-Hindu, mind you. When Hindus don't have any Muslims to kill they kill Christians so it's not like they're entirely innocent. On the other side of it you need to be honest and recognize that India was once forcibly occupied by Islam and the desecration of Hindu holy sites remains a scar on their collective memory.

Not to tweak you, but maybe if there were more Muslims willing to recognize the rights of Hindus to worship as they see fit without also calling them names then maybe the Hindus would get over it. Oh, and it would not hurt if Pakistan would give up their claim on Kashmir.

[Brenda]

PJB PJB:

Perhaps Muslims that want religion in school should start their own schools. There are Catholic schools, which my children attend, there are Jewish schools. Why not Muslim schools? They can get enough people together and create their own.

We had a couple in Holland, and one after the other closed because they couldn't keep up with the curriculum.

[Guy_Fawkes]

PJB PJB:

Perhaps Muslims that want religion in school should start their own schools. There are Catholic schools, which my children attend, there are Jewish schools. Why not Muslim schools? They can get enough people together and create their own.

They do have those schools, or at least they did when I lived in Edmonton.

[Guy_Fawkes]

Now in all honestly, I dont see this whole prayer issue as a huge deal. Even if these kids miss out in class, they are missing class, praying will put them behind. As long as concessions are not made for them in a scholastic sense, let them pray the whole day away if they want to. I dont see anywhere in the article saying the kids MUST pray, it's only other religious denominations who are butthurt by not being able to pull the same stunt.

[BartSimpson]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

I dont see anywhere in the article saying the kids MUST pray

If the kids are Muslim then the "must" goes without saying.

[Guy_Fawkes]

They may feel strongly obligated, but I sure if any of them didnt want to pray they wouldnt. Again, when I lived in north Edmonton, hundreds of the kids would get time off school during Ramadan. You could always catch at least 2/3 of them eating at lunch or sneaking in a bag of chips.

Either way, it is the Imam or the parents persuading them to pray, not the school.

[desertdude]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

[With that being the case then the Muslims in Toronto won't mind doing their prayers after school and off of school grounds?

Ofcourse they won't, if there is a strict ban or anything similar to it in place, like I mentioned earlier, Islam is very flexible and there are always other alternatives

$1:

The JDL and the Canadian Hindu Advocacy (CHA) did not come into existence spontaneously. Both groups trace to people who share a history of oppression, persecution, and sometimes even genocide.

Right, so this prayer issue is akin to all that, uh huh.

$1:

The Jewish sensitivity to Muslim oppression is nothing new.

Neither is Jewish sensitivity to genocide at the hands of Christians.

$1:

But the Hindu sensitivity goes back a ways and since some on here won't grasp it:

YOU ...are the last person on this planet to say anything to me on the topic of my region and the region of my ancestors. Because you haven't the slightest clue what you're on about.

[desertdude]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

I dont see anywhere in the article saying the kids MUST pray

If the kids are Muslim then the "must" goes without saying.

Once again shows that you are totaly clueless on the subject.

[Brenda]

desertdude desertdude:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

I dont see anywhere in the article saying the kids MUST pray

If the kids are Muslim then the "must" goes without saying.

Once again shows that you are totaly clueless on the subject.

So, if it is not mandatory, and does not matter when they pray, why would the school accommodate ONLY Muslims? Why can't they wait till they are home, or pray before school, like any other religious kid?

[martin14]

desertdude desertdude:

YOU ...are the last person on this planet to say anything to me on the topic of my region and the region of my ancestors. Because you haven't the slightest clue what you're on about.

But yet YOU have no problem waddling into this thread.......

[desertdude]

Brenda Brenda:

ory, and does not matter when they pray, why would the school accommodate ONLY Muslims? Why can't they wait till they are home, or pray before school, like any other religious kid?

It is mandatory and does matter BUT since they are allowed during they make use of it, besides it better to for the friday midday to pray in congregation.

If there wasn't such an option they could go home and make up from the lost prayers.

Friday midday prayers are like Sunday Mass, better done at a certain time and in congregation but if one cannot they can make up for it later in the day or even worse case scenario anytime during their lifetime but its not the same you could call it something like minimum passing grade

Oh and I feel a gush of hot air ? Oh its martin yapping again.

[BartSimpson]

desertdude desertdude:

YOU ...are the last person on this planet to say anything to me on the topic of my region and the region of my ancestors. Because you haven't the slightest clue what you're on about.

Tread carefully there, my friend. Given your residency in Dubai I've probably spent more time in your 'region' than you have in the past decade.

[Macguyver]

PJB PJB:

Perhaps Muslims that want religion in school should start their own schools. There are Catholic schools, which my children attend, there are Jewish schools. Why not Muslim schools? They can get enough people together and create their own.

That might work if everyone is prepared to accept a Muslim school as a Muslim school. Unfortunately the Christian Right tend to think of those schools as "terrorist" training centers.

[andyt]

Macguyver Macguyver:

PJB PJB:

Perhaps Muslims that want religion in school should start their own schools. There are Catholic schools, which my children attend, there are Jewish schools. Why not Muslim schools? They can get enough people together and create their own.

That might work if everyone is prepared to accept a Muslim school as a Muslim school. Unfortunately the Christian Right tend to think of those schools as "terrorist" training centers.

There already are Muslim schools, just as there are Jewish and Christian ones. No sign of the Christian right with torches and pitchforks.

I just don't see how you can accommodate the Muslims, but not allow other groups who might want to pray during school hours on school property. But what a mess that would make. Muslims should just accept that they moved to a secular society and live with it. As should the Christian right.

[Brenda]

desertdude desertdude:

Brenda Brenda:

ory, and does not matter when they pray, why would the school accommodate ONLY Muslims? Why can't they wait till they are home, or pray before school, like any other religious kid?

It is mandatory and does matter BUT since they are allowed during they make use of it, besides it better to for the friday midday to pray in congregation.

If there wasn't such an option they could go home and make up from the lost prayers.

Friday midday prayers are like Sunday Mass, better done at a certain time and in congregation but if one cannot they can make up for it later in the day or even worse case scenario anytime during their lifetime but its not the same you could call it something like minimum passing grade

Well, then maybe they should live in a Muslim society and not in a secular one. IMO, it is ridiculous that it is allowed. I am not talking about people taking advantage of the possibilities they have, I am talking about people demanding the right to pray during school or work hours (and be paid).

What's good for the goose, is good for the gander, and if any group gets a right to do something else than what they are there for, then any other group should be accommodated too. Regardless of their request. As long as it is not illegal what they request, it should be homoured.