[Canadian_Mind]

Macguyver Macguyver:

How much is it worth to you folks who support the name change?

Priceless. Tens of thousands of men died serving the RCAF and RCN. I'd be willing to bet there are those out there who'd be willing to die to preserve it as a tradition for that very reason. People have given their lives for less significant traditions in the military.

$1:

I've looked but really I see guesses and ideas about business cards and letterhead and painting planes at $77,000 a pop but no firm figures.

Shit like Letterheads and painting planes is all done inhouse. We have people in the military paid to do that on a daily basis.

$1:

One of you rocket surgeons must have seen an accurate numnber from a reliable source?

If you had a million dollars to spend on the military, would you spend it changing the names? Or would you spend it on another CT scan for Combat Hospital? (Tuesday Nights Global and ABC!!!)

Just wondering where your priorities lie.

You're basing reality on a television show? Nice source.

[DanSC]

Meanwhile, we're all waiting on word if the United States Air Force will assimilate back into the Army as the United States Army Air Corp, for the sake of tradition and to honor the men and Women who fought in World War II.

[PluggyRug]

See the crown.

[Canadian_Mind]

DanSC DanSC:

Meanwhile, we're all waiting on word if the United States Air Force will assimilate back into the Army as the United States Army Air Corp, for the sake of tradition and to honor the men and Women who fought in World War II.

There is a difference between changing a name for the sake of tradition, and overhauling a massive beaurocratic institution. The air corps was separated from the army for a reason. What the reason was, I don't know, but why fix what isn't broken?

You're statement would have merit if we broke up the CF into 3 separate institutions again for the sake of tradition, but I doubt that will happen.

[BeaverFever]

Gunnair Gunnair:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

A survey on the death penalty and drug use? Seems like we might be off-topic.

Not really. It's more a point that tossing about statistics of what people want aren't all that relevent.

If they were, we'd be looking at bringing back the death penalty.

It is relevant. Just like it would be relevant to use those stats to argue on another thread that a large minority of Canadians support the death penalty.

[BeaverFever]

martin14 martin14:

Funny how 42% turns into a "strong Liberal Majority Government" so fast.

And why no whining about it then ?

I think you're confused. A party is a "Majority Government" if it wins more than 50% of the seats in legislature. The term has nothing to do with what % of popular vote the party won, which is usually less than 50%. Although if a party happens to get 42% of the popular vote, that's a high enough number that it usually means they've won most of the seats. And people do whine about that, but it's how most Parliamentary systems currently work.

[Canadian_Mind]

This just in, 42% of Canadians = Large minority. Something as drastic as changing the head of state and governing system should be at least a 50%+1 deal, if not 60+%

[BeaverFever]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

This just in, 42% of Canadians = Large minority. Something as drastic as changing the head of state and governing system should be at least a 50%+1 deal, if not 60+%

I don't think anybody is advocating that the Head of State be changed because 42% of the population feel that way. This thread is not about even getting rid of the Monarchy, its about renaming the Navy and Air Force. The point is simply that maintaining ties to the monarchy is not relevant to a large number of Canadians.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Macguyver Macguyver:

How much is it worth to you folks who support the name change?

Pen...check. Paper...check.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

This just in, 42% of Canadians = Large minority. Something as drastic as changing the head of state and governing system should be at least a 50%+1 deal, if not 60+%

I don't think anybody is advocating that the Head of State be changed because 42% of the population feel that way. This thread is not about even getting rid of the Monarchy, its about renaming the Navy and Air Force. The point is simply that maintaining ties to the monarchy is not relevant to a large number of Canadians.

But it IS relevant to a large proportion of current and retired military members.
I mean c'mon BF, the gov't of either stripe does shit everyday that isn't relevant for large numbers of Canadians.

[Canadian_Mind]

Ok, if it is not about removing the monarchy, then why do so many Canadians protest the change? The names bare no importance to most people who never served, and otherwise don't effect them or their daily lives at all. Conversely, this bares huge importance to vets and those currently serving, not because we're monarchists, but because our moral and support stems from our traditions in the military. We hold our traditions very dearly.

Here is a thought, lets jump ahead another 30 years with all this "Seasons Greetings" bullshit. If someone tries to switch it back to Christmas again, and 42% of Canadians shit all over that despite the fact that calling it Christmas does not degrade their lifestyle or personal beliefs whatsoever, but would mean something huge to Christians, or people who honestly give a fuck about traditions, and what Christmas is supposed to be all about. How would you feel? How do you anticipate your children would feel? Grandchildren? etc?

[BeaverFever]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

But it IS relevant to a large proportion of current and retired military members.
I mean c'mon BF, the gov't of either stripe does shit everyday that isn't relevant for large numbers of Canadians.

I think current and past servicemembers are probably more concerned with historical and traditional aspect of the name, rather than paying homage to Monarchy.

In other words, I submit that had the Navy and Air Force NEVERhad the word "Royal" associated with their name in the past - if they had fought through the World Wars and Korea simply with the names "Canadian Navy" and "Canadian Air Force" - would many people support adding the word "Royal" now? Probably not.

I think it's also fair to ask what say(if any) do non-military civilians have in this issue? And I'm asking this as an honest open question, not a leading one: In a democracy, is the military not meant to be subservient to the interests and values of the civilian population?

Finally, you are right that governments do certain things that are not relevant to large numbers of Canadians, but if/when 42% of the population galvanizes around an issue, politicians usually take note and adjust their behaviour accordingly Note: answering a survey on the monarchy isn't really "galvanizing" on an issue - but if 42% of Canadians were marching in the streets, our gov't would acknowledge their demands in some meaningful way.

[BeaverFever]

Everybody calls it Christmas. "Seasons greetings" dates back to Dickensian times at least, but is used nowadays just as a way to give a greeting during the festive season to everybody, including those who doesn't observe Christmas but partakes in the cultural holiday. It's especially useful if you're a store and you want people to buy your stuff, no matter what their religion is, which is why the term is mostly used in advertising or when addressing the general public at large.

[martin14]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Ok, if it is not about removing the monarchy, then why do so many Canadians protest the change?

Any decision this Government makes must be criticized.


And they have nothing better to do, like learn a little history.

[Regina]

It's not paying homage to the Monarchy is paying homage to the people who bravely fought and died to have the title bestowed. People here seem to have overlooked the fact the many of the current Canadian Regiments have the "Royal" title and its not that long ago that those titles were still given. The Royal Regina Rifles have only had the Royal name change since the early 80's but it was their war records that earned it. Its not really a big deal but I like the fact that it's going to be put back to the way it was.
It's just decals and paint...........and a previously bestowed honour.