[andyt]

Brenda Brenda:

You can't do that to the people who applied 5 years ago and are still waiting for their visa. You can't change the rules on the ones that have been waiting (AND PAID) for years.

You can however implement a system of the sort when you got rid of the backlog.

OK, fair enough. As you pointed out, none of these people are guaranteed that they will be accepted. So apply the rules stringently. And if the rules allow in too many people who we don't really want, refund the applicant's money and send a so sorry letter.

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

Brenda Brenda:

You can't do that to the people who applied 5 years ago and are still waiting for their visa. You can't change the rules on the ones that have been waiting (AND PAID) for years.

You can however implement a system of the sort when you got rid of the backlog.

OK, fair enough. As you pointed out, none of these people are guaranteed that they will be accepted. So apply the rules stringently. And if the rules allow in too many people who we don't really want, refund the applicant's money and send a so sorry letter.

Exactly. The Embassy (for as far as I know) does not tell you WHY you are "not eligible" (or rejected) anyways. But you have to treat them all fairly, and according to the rules.
Just, like you say, apply them stringently. They have occupation-qualification (or something) now. Which means that if your occupation is not on the short list, your application will be returned. But that is since 2007, and I am sure there are still people waiting who applied before 2007.

[Bruce_the_vii]

Yeah they stopped reporting how long the waiting list is. It used to be an issue but now it's forgotten, and they are prioritizing people with in demand skills.

I can remember a couple of years ago when Harper tried to close the system to new applications so as they could work on the waiting list. Even that idea was to much for the immigration advocates who want the system to be open, fair and universal. Getting in from a third world country is like winning a lottery ticket but some how they want it to appear fair.

[Brenda]

Bruce_the_vii Bruce_the_vii:

Yeah they stopped reporting how long the waiting list is. It used to be an issue but now it's forgotten, and they are prioritizing people with in demand skills.

I can remember a couple of years ago when Harper tried to close the system to new applications so as they could work on the waiting list. Even that idea was to much for the immigration advocates who want the system to be open, fair and universal. Getting in from a third world country is like winning a lottery ticket but some how they want it to appear fair.

They still do:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/informatio ... erm-fc.asp (family class)
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/informatio ... erm-ec.asp (economic classes, like skilled worker, entrepeneur, etc.)

Waiting times for skilled worker in Berlin (where I applied) that were filed BEFORE the new rules are now 45 months. When I applied in 2005, it was 9 months. It took 27. For applications received after the new rules took affect, the waiting time is almost 3 times as short. I have NO clue how, since there is a 3 year backlog...

[Bruce_the_vii]

Touchy issue, isn't it.

[Brenda]

Wow, a friend of mine applied in the entrepreneur class, at the same time when I applied. It took him exactly 9 months and 3 days. Now, it is 30 months. I don't think ANY businessman is going to wait 2.5 years for that. Same for investors. Don;t forget they have to bring $300,000 or $600,000 in cash, have to show they can spend it, AND have to file a business plan and show within 3 years that they hired a certain amount of Canadians.

This is RIDICULOUS!!

[andyt]

That's what happens when you won't take a stand. The pols want to please the immigrant voting blocs so have a wide open system and let everybody in, but know if they overdo it Canadians will finally be pushed too far and revolt. So you get this kind of mess.

[Bruce_the_vii]

The idea is pretty crazy to start with. Get some guy from half way around the world to set up a business here in Canada as a way of getting in.

My understanding is that Quebec allows them to loan the $600,000 to Quebec companies that are starting a business or something. So actually they don't have to set up some little dumpy entrepreneurial shit hole company - they find a middleman. There free to settle elsewhere though.

[andyt]

There have been suggestions to get rid of that program because it's such a shambles and rife with corruption.

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

There have been suggestions to get rid of that program because it's such a shambles and rife with corruption.

The investors? Good idea. I don't have a clue why that exists anyway.

[Caelon]

martin14 martin14:

Caelon Caelon:

It is the second and third generation that integrates into the base and inter marries. The first generation is the visibly different one and subsequent generations are 'Canadianized'.

The British thought the same, and other Euro countries.

Turns out this idea may not exactly hold water.

Although this is anecdotal information I think it is indicative. A family I am familiar with had 4 children come to Canada for education and stay. The parents came over later with the other 5 children. Eight of the 9 children married of which two or 25% married outside of their race. Of the 9 married grand children 6 married outside the grandparent race and 3 stayed within the race or 2/3 versus 1/3. One family's history does not make a trend, but in my experience I see second and third generation imigrants holding aspects of the original culture while being mainstream Canadian for most of their day to day life. If the second generation married within the race their children most likely will not.

I believe this applies to Europeans, Asians and East Indians. The ability of the second genration to break the mold depends on how open their parents are. With strict parents some will follow the expectations and others will rebel against whatever postion the parents take.

[Brenda]

The problem with Muslim immigration to Europe is tho, that they are usually raised pretty strict. Most Muslim immigrants are from countries like Morocco and Turkey, and they have close ties with their motherland, even second and third generation. Marriages are still arranged with cousins back in the home country, who then come to Western Europe, wear a Burqa and live the same life as they did in the Rif mountains. Holidays are spent in the home country all Summer.
Also, dating a blonde (or white, you get the picture) girl is nice when they are young, but all blondes are whores and can not be taken home to show to mom. NOT marriage material.

You just can't compare Canadian Immigrants to European Muslim Immigrants. And the biggest problems in Europe are with Muslims... That, btw, we created ourselves, when we needed them 50 years ago to do the dirty work we thought we were too good for...
And every country has it's own shit. We had it for years with people from Suriname and the Dutch Antilles.

[andyt]

As I said, all in all, Canadian immigrants have integrated pretty well. We're a success story compared to the rest of the world. But the problems are building up here too as we allow a critical mass of particular cultures to cluster together.

This topic is about immigrants being a burden on our social systems. Surem so far the ones born here integrate pretty well, mostly are no more or less a burden than Canadians as a whole. But we keep bringing 1/4 million new ones every year. And many of them are a continuing burden. Especially the parents and grandparents that use our medical system without having paid into it. Saying sorry while using is just doesn't solve the problem.

[herbie]

My gripe is them taking all the jobs away. From the stupid lazy teenagers who've lost the opportunity to learn shit about work.
Never had to tell an immigrant
Sweep the floor every day means today. Like right now.
And now you have to put what you swept in the dustpan.
And now you have to empty the dustpan in the garbage.
Oh look, the garbage is full. When that happens you have take the trash out.
... then do it all over again the next day.
Or tell an immigrant
Get off Facebook (or MSN) and sweep the floor
Get off Facebook (or MSN) and stock the shelves
Get off Facebook (or MSN) garbage is falling on your lap, empty it now
Get off Facebook (or MSN) and clean the windows.
They come in and offer to do all that twice a week for what the teenagers expect to make in an hour, playing on Facebook.

[Bruce_the_vii]

Bosses that pay minimum wage to teenagers are in charge of teaching them the ropes of the work place. This basic stuff that you mention is the on-the-job training that they get. It's just a step on the way.