[DerbyX]

andyt andyt:

And they pay for their medical care too, do they. And the old age supplement the parents receive? We certainly don't need to be importing a bunch of old people who have never paid taxes here.

They do pay taxes. In many cases the elderly work in their businesses as well and therefore create wealth.

Your anti-immigration tirades are getting rather tiresome.

[andyt]

Oh, so now they don't stay home and look after the kids, but are all entrepreneurs creating wealth in this country? Or is it their babysitting money they pay taxes on?

We have an overburdened medical system. How on earth does it make sense to import old people who will add a huge burden to it while never having paid taxes during their working lives? Do you know what it costs for the last year of life of a person - that's where a huge chunk of our medical costs come in. You have to pay taxes all your life to hope to make up for that.

Your mindless pro-immigration tirades are getting rather tiresome.

[BartSimpson]

Brenda Brenda:

$1:

Another court has ruled the government must consider waiving the fees on her application for permanent residence.

Why? I had to pay, why shouldn't she?

You're just a mean spirited conservative is what you are!

(Welcome aboard! )

[DerbyX]

andyt andyt:

Oh, so now they don't stay home and look after the kids, but are all entrepreneurs creating wealth in this country? Or is it their babysitting money they pay taxes on?

They can do both. They can stay home with the kids allowing 2 parents to work in the workplace (thus creating wealth). They can work in the family business (most often a restaurant, again thus creating wealth. Work like that is often unpaid as its a family thing. Then again they might just decide to work part time doing some of the same things our semi-retired folk do.

andyt andyt:

We have an overburdened medical system. How on earth does it make sense to import old people who will add a huge burden to it while never having paid taxes during their working lives? Do you know what it costs for the last year of life of a person - that's where a huge chunk of our medical costs come in. You have to pay taxes all your life to hope to make up for that.

I'm willing to bet their elderly are exceedingly less of a burden on the healthcare system then ours especially when you consider the cost of obesity & complications like diabetes. Immigrants almost always come from cultures where that is a minimum especially asian countries who are the most likely to bring in their elderly.

andyt andyt:

Your mindless pro-immigration tirades are getting rather tiresome.

Mine are based on fact and humanity. Yours are based on bigotry.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

Target for 2010 for family class immigrants = 65,000. Total number of immigrants in 2010: 245,000 - 265,000. 65/265=24.5%

I have no problems with immigrants bringing in their spouses and dependent children. But not their parents and grandparents. We don't need those.

Again, most of those are spouses and children of the original applicant - not their parents/grandparents.

Like I said, a strawman...

[andyt]

DerbyX DerbyX:

andyt andyt:

Oh, so now they don't stay home and look after the kids, but are all entrepreneurs creating wealth in this country? Or is it their babysitting money they pay taxes on?

They can do both. They can stay home with the kids allowing 2 parents to work in the workplace (thus creating wealth). They can work in the family business (most often a restaurant, again thus creating wealth. Work like that is often unpaid as its a family thing. Then again they might just decide to work part time doing some of the same things our semi-retired folk do.

andyt andyt:

We have an overburdened medical system. How on earth does it make sense to import old people who will add a huge burden to it while never having paid taxes during their working lives? Do you know what it costs for the last year of life of a person - that's where a huge chunk of our medical costs come in. You have to pay taxes all your life to hope to make up for that.

I'm willing to bet their elderly are exceedingly less of a burden on the healthcare system then ours especially when you consider the cost of obesity & complications like diabetes. Immigrants almost always come from cultures where that is a minimum especially asian countries who are the most likely to bring in their elderly.

andyt andyt:

Your mindless pro-immigration tirades are getting rather tiresome.

Mine are based on fact and humanity. Yours are based on bigotry.

What a lot of nonsense you're spouting. I thought you worked in the medical field. Asians have a higher incidence of diabetes than white Canadians. Since many of these people come from countries with much poorer health systems than ours, they arrive with all sorts of problems. Also, immigrants learn to scarf down McDonalds pretty quickly. And back home too - in China the rate of

$1:

increase

in obesity is much faster than ours.

Please explain how these oldsters manage to be in two places at once - at home minding the kids, and at the family business. And how whatever wealth they generate this way results in enough taxes to pay for their costly medical care as they get sick and can do neither babysitting nor helping in business.

You want to make immigration to Canada a humanitarian enterprise, that's up to you. I would prefer we make it a program that puts Canada's interests first. I don't think that's bigotry, but I guess we've reached the point where you pull out the standard Canadian nuclear weapon when someone doesn't agree with you about immigration - the racist card. Nice way to shut down discussion.

[andyt]

bootlegga bootlegga:

andyt andyt:

Target for 2010 for family class immigrants = 65,000. Total number of immigrants in 2010: 245,000 - 265,000. 65/265=24.5%

I have no problems with immigrants bringing in their spouses and dependent children. But not their parents and grandparents. We don't need those.

Again, most of those are spouses and children of the original applicant - not their parents/grandparents.

Like I said, a strawman...

So the fact you were off by 100% doesn't bother you at all? There are 100,000 parents and grandparents of immigrants in the cue to come here. That's a lot of old people and a lot of use of scarce medical resources.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

bootlegga bootlegga:

andyt andyt:

Target for 2010 for family class immigrants = 65,000. Total number of immigrants in 2010: 245,000 - 265,000. 65/265=24.5%

I have no problems with immigrants bringing in their spouses and dependent children. But not their parents and grandparents. We don't need those.

Again, most of those are spouses and children of the original applicant - not their parents/grandparents.

Like I said, a strawman...

So the fact you were off by 100% doesn't bother you at all? There are 100,000 parents and grandparents of immigrants in the cue to come here. That's a lot of old people and a lot of use of scarce medical resources.

See bolded text...

Spouses usually work, and children eventually will, so your argument that 65000 family class people per year are the sole cause of skyrocketing health care costs is BS.

[andyt]

bootlegga bootlegga:

See bolded text...

Spouses usually work, and children eventually will, so your argument that 65000 family class people per year are the sole cause of skyrocketing health care costs is BS.

Wow, you can twist with the best on CKA - Bart would be envious. Please quote me where I said it's the sole cause? It's another burden, one we don't need and that is easy to prevent. As I said, of course spouses and dependent children should be allowed in. It's all the old folks we don't need.

[DerbyX]

andyt andyt:

What a lot of nonsense you're spouting. I thought you worked in the medical field. Asians have a higher incidence of diabetes than white Canadians. Since many of these people come from countries with much poorer health systems than ours, they arrive with all sorts of problems. Also, immigrants learn to scarf down McDonalds pretty quickly. And back home too - in China the rate of

$1:

increase

in obesity is much faster than ours.

You are spouting the crap. Take a look at the health conditions (not to mention life expectancy) of asian countries. A good deal of that is due to health conditions like obesity and the lack there of.

If China's obesity rate is rising faster then ours (and I doubt it) it is only because our % obesity rate is already much higher then theirs.

In fact the closest asian country on this list is Japan & Korea at a paltry 3.4% compared to ours at 14.3%. That is over 4 times less.

The Globe & Mail pegs us at almost 25%.

Spare me your tirade about the burden immigrants place on the health care system. It is a red herring based on bias not fact.

andyt andyt:

Please explain how these oldsters manage to be in two places at once - at home minding the kids, and at the family business. And how whatever wealth they generate this way results in enough taxes to pay for their costly medical care as they get sick and can do neither babysitting nor helping in business.

Obviously it means they are often doing one or the other OR they are working part time in the family business while spending some of the time at home helping with the kids. Think.

andyt andyt:

You want to make immigration to Canada a humanitarian enterprise, that's up to you. I would prefer we make it a program that puts Canada's interests first. I don't think that's bigotry, but I guess we've reached the point where you pull out the standard Canadian nuclear weapon when someone doesn't agree with you about immigration - the racist card. Nice way to shut down discussion.

It certainly is bigotry when you go off like that accusing them of over burdening the health care system, getting money for doing nothing, and for the record you have consistently maintained that even the able bodied immigrants are a drain rather then a benefit.

[andyt]

DerbyX DerbyX:

It certainly is bigotry when you go off like that accusing them of over burdening the health care system, getting money for doing nothing, and for the record you have consistently maintained that even the able bodied immigrants are a drain rather then a benefit.

How is it bigotry to be against an immigration system that brings in people whether we need them or not, makes no attempt to scale immigration to actual needs, lets in tons of people who don't have skills they can successfully apply in Canada so just compete for low wage jobs and drive down wages further and bring in tons of people who are a drain to the economy?

$1:

Despite their lower body weight, Asians are more likely to develop Type 2 diabetes than Caucasians. Rates of diabetes are skyrocketing among Asians in North America and East Asia.

http://www.healthzone.ca/health/yourhealth/diabetes/article/771433--asians-disproportionately-affected-by-diabetes

$1:

As a group, Asian Indians have one of the highest rates of heart disease in the world, three times higher than in the United States. In spite of a fairly healthy lifestyle, many Asian Indians have very high levels of the blood fat triglyceride and low levels of HDL (the good cholesterol), as well as a high incidence of diabetes. Researchers have been trying to figure out why the group is at higher risk.

http://www.umm.edu/news/releases/miller.htm

$1:

Heart disease, cancer and stroke are now the top killers of middle-aged people in China, fueled by high blood pressure and smoking, which have developed alongside the country's economy, according to one of the largest surveys of its kind, AP reported.
The research into the major causes of death in adults found that over the past 45 years, China has undergone a huge health transition. Infectious disease has been replaced by the same chronic killers that plague the West.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-09/15/content_478073.htm

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

bootlegga bootlegga:

See bolded text...

Spouses usually work, and children eventually will, so your argument that 65000 family class people per year are the sole cause of skyrocketing health care costs is BS.

Wow, you can twist with the best on CKA - Bart would be envious. Please quote me where I said it's the sole cause? It's another burden, one we don't need and that is easy to prevent. As I said, of course spouses and dependent children should be allowed in. It's all the old folks we don't need.

Well, based on your comments in this thread (and others), you sure make it sound like immigration is the root of all our problems here in Canada - unemployment, rising health care costs, social inequality, you name it.

[Brenda]

Personally (and this is a whole other twist...) I think the root of all problems is the amount of people and the square footage of the country.

You can't create jobs or profitable (social) services where there are only a few people. And there is a LOT of country where there is only a few people. Still, all amenities have to be there which is only expensive.

[andyt]

bootlegga bootlegga:

andyt andyt:

bootlegga bootlegga:

See bolded text...

Spouses usually work, and children eventually will, so your argument that 65000 family class people per year are the sole cause of skyrocketing health care costs is BS.

Wow, you can twist with the best on CKA - Bart would be envious. Please quote me where I said it's the sole cause? It's another burden, one we don't need and that is easy to prevent. As I said, of course spouses and dependent children should be allowed in. It's all the old folks we don't need.

Well, based on your comments in this thread (and others), you sure make it sound like immigration is the root of all our problems here in Canada - unemployment, rising health care costs, social inequality, you name it.

If you get a fixed wheel bike, you can pedal backwards, tho it's not easy.

I've never said it's the root of all problems. It certainly contributes to them, and is one that IMO is easily fixed.

[DerbyX]

andyt andyt:

How is it bigotry to be against an immigration system that brings in people whether we need them or not, makes no attempt to scale immigration to actual needs, lets in tons of people who don't have skills they can successfully apply in Canada so just compete for low wage jobs and drive down wages further and bring in tons of people who are a drain to the economy?

It's anti-immigrant bigotry no different from the "fuck off we're full mentality" coupled with the "they are a drain on the system" and the "dey took ar jebs".

andyt andyt:

$1:

Despite their lower body weight, Asians are more likely to develop Type 2 diabetes than Caucasians. Rates of diabetes are skyrocketing among Asians in North America and East Asia.

http://www.healthzone.ca/health/yourhealth/diabetes/article/771433--asians-disproportionately-affected-by-diabetes

Canada 1 in 20 (around 1.3 million) http://www.healthcouncilcanada.ca/docs/ ... NGLISH.pdf

China 1 in 44 (about 30 million out of 1.3 billion.) http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20040426 ... -worldwide

This is just more of your crap about how "they" are being more of health burden then us.

$1:

As a group, Asian Indians have one of the highest rates of heart disease in the world, three times higher than in the United States. In spite of a fairly healthy lifestyle, many Asian Indians have very high levels of the blood fat triglyceride and low levels of HDL (the good cholesterol), as well as a high incidence of diabetes. Researchers have been trying to figure out why the group is at higher risk.

http://www.umm.edu/news/releases/miller.htm

Now you switch to Indian Asians with a strawman. Keeping looking for specific indicators where they may be higher then us to try and show they'll be a burden on the health care system rather then home grown white boys eh.

That would be the bigotry. You are looking for reasons to prove they will pay less taxes and require more services just because you don't like them.

andyt andyt:

$1:

Heart disease, cancer and stroke are now the top killers of middle-aged people in China, fueled by high blood pressure and smoking, which have developed alongside the country's economy, according to one of the largest surveys of its kind, AP reported.
The research into the major causes of death in adults found that over the past 45 years, China has undergone a huge health transition. Infectious disease has been replaced by the same chronic killers that plague the West.

You don't even know what argument you are making. It is IRRELEVANT that these are becoming the leading killers. It doesn't mean they are more susceptible or will require greater care then white people.

It is only logical that as they adopt a high calorie less labour intensive lifestyle they'll encounter the same problems. Of course these are invariable the wealthy people who live a good life there and won't immigrate.

As Boots said, you are putting forth nothing but straw man arguments designed to bitch that immigrants are stealing our jobs and over taxing our services.

They are in fact helping to create wealth, a greater tax base, and a stronger economy.

Plus we got Brenda.