[andyt]

Brenda Brenda:

andyt andyt:

The best solution is not to create prisoners in the first place. Legalizing drugs will greatly reduce a huge stream of prisoners and bring in extra revenue to the state as well. Poverty alleviation measures will also reduce crime/save money.

Why don't we just legalize every thing that is illegal now and make everything free? Then there is no reason to steal, everybody is equal, AND there are no criminals anymore.

Damn, I'm good

Et tu, Brenda?

[Brenda]

And me what?

[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

Well good luck with that idea. You should write a paper on it, put some real numbers to it, show how a group of mostly poorly educated, low skill, high risk people could generate the kind of money that would pay for the prison system. It'd be like discovering economic perpetual motion.

I suppose we could just shoot the fuckers instead. Let's ask the inmates which they prefer.

[GreenTiger]

Brenda Brenda:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Oddly, the FBI just announced a precipitous drop in crime rates in the USA. Seems the right people (for the most part) are locked up.

Too bad we don't have a handy place to exile them all to.

You do. It's called Gitmo.
Or any prison on the Mississippi river atm
"We shoot everything that breaches the levies. Beavers, snakes... Just not the gators. We like the gators."

I've got one better: Send them to GITMO open the front gate and let them spend some time in Fidel's Cuba, that is like jail isn't it?

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

Well good luck with that idea. You should write a paper on it, put some real numbers to it, show how a group of mostly poorly educated, low skill, high risk people could generate the kind of money that would pay for the prison system. It'd be like discovering economic perpetual motion.

I suppose we could just shoot the fuckers instead. Let's ask the inmates which they prefer.

I'm sure they would prefer to work for their keep. But then when it turns out that your plan isn't economically feasible, you'll still have to shoot them anyway. And if you want to shoot a three striker 'cause he stole a slice of pizza, or some guy who sold a pound of dope, well I'm glad you aren't in charge around here.

[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

I'm sure they would prefer to work for their keep. But then when it turns out that your plan isn't economically feasible, you'll still have to shoot them anyway.

Or put them on a payment plan when they get out.

andyandy andyandy:

And if you want to shoot a three striker 'cause he stole a slice of pizza, or some guy who sold a pound of dope, well I'm glad you aren't in charge around here.

On the troll again, huh? Back to putting words in my mouth? Your M.O. is weary. I'm firmly on the record in favour of narcotics legalization, so drug users wouldn't end up in the courts, let alone the prisons, for drug possession in my world. I'm not in favour of jail time of any length for property offences unless the offender is habitual. And what do you mean by "around here"? Are you on the inside, andy? I think you'd be very glad if I were in charge "around here".

[Brenda]

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

I'm sure they would prefer to work for their keep. But then when it turns out that your plan isn't economically feasible, you'll still have to shoot them anyway.

Or put them on a payment plan when they get out.

That would be a nice idea, if it were not that then no one would become a good citizen after they get out. Who would want to work their butt off to pay off a jail-dept of $450K? It's easier to go back to the dark side so you can go on welfare and deal some drugs or rob some gas stations on the side.

I rather see us put some effort in schooling them in prison so they can become good citizens after they get out and change their lives around, and have them make clothing pins or cook for their peers 40 hours a week. Cleaning up roads for the minimum security prisons, growing their own veggies in any prison, even have cows and pigs to provide milk and meat...

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

I'm sure they would prefer to work for their keep. But then when it turns out that your plan isn't economically feasible, you'll still have to shoot them anyway.

Or put them on a payment plan when they get out.

andyandy andyandy:

And if you want to shoot a three striker 'cause he stole a slice of pizza, or some guy who sold a pound of dope, well I'm glad you aren't in charge around here.

On the troll again, huh? Back to putting words in my mouth? Your M.O. is weary. I'm firmly on the record in favour of narcotics legalization, so drug users wouldn't end up in the courts, let alone the prisons, for drug possession in my world. I'm not in favour of jail time of any length for property offences unless the offender is habitual. And what do you mean by "around here"? Are you on the inside, andy? I think you'd be very glad if I were in charge "around here".

I think it's you that's trolling, suggesting we shoot all prisoners who can't pay for incarceration. I just responded to that.

Payment plan when they get out, eh? Say 10 years = $750,000 - you think they'll ever pay that off? As I say, I think it's you that's trolling here.

As for you being in charge, that's just delusional. Guys that think they have it all figured out are dangerous.

[andyt]

Brenda Brenda:

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

I'm sure they would prefer to work for their keep. But then when it turns out that your plan isn't economically feasible, you'll still have to shoot them anyway.

Or put them on a payment plan when they get out.

That would be a nice idea, if it were not that then no one would become a good citizen after they get out. Who would want to work their butt off to pay off a jail-dept of $450K? It's easier to go back to the dark side so you can go on welfare and deal some drugs or rob some gas stations on the side.

I rather see us put some effort in schooling them in prison so they can become good citizens after they get out and change their lives around, and have them make clothing pins or cook for their peers 40 hours a week. Cleaning up roads for the minimum security prisons, growing their own veggies in any prison, even have cows and pigs to provide milk and meat...

Even if the prisoners wanted to go straight and pay off that debt, Brenda, most of them would never get the kind of jobs that would allow that. But yeah, maybe some honest ones would do some major drug deals and then walk into the prison office with a stack of bills worth $450k, dust off the cocaine and say "here, I'm paying my debt to society."

As I said, I'd like to see the main effort go to keeping people out of prison in the first place - that's where the big savings are to be made.

[Lemmy]

Brenda Brenda:

That would be a nice idea, if it were not that then no one would become a good citizen after they get out. Who would want to work their butt off to pay off a jail-dept of $450K? It's easier to go back to the dark side so you can go on welfare and deal some drugs or rob some gas stations on the side.

One's prison debt could be used as a hell of an incentive to stay straight too. Tell the ex-con if he makes his payments for five years and stays out of trouble, the debt is forgiven. If he fucks up in the future, it's back to con college and the debt is reinstated.

Brenda Brenda:

I rather see us put some effort in schooling them in prison so they can become good citizens after they get out and change their lives around, and have them make clothing pins or cook for their peers 40 hours a week. Cleaning up roads for the minimum security prisons, growing their own veggies in any prison, even have cows and pigs to provide milk and meat...

I like the idea of giving inmates opportunities to make money. That helps pay for the system and creates a lot of other positive benefits, such as work ethic, self-esteem and skills that can be carried beyond their prison days.

andyandy andyandy:

I think it's you that's trolling, suggesting we shoot all prisoners who can't pay for incarceration. I just responded to that. Payment plan when they get out, eh? Say 10 years = $750,000 - you think they'll ever pay that off? As I say, I think it's you that's trolling here. As for you being in charge, that's just delusional. Guys that think they have it all figured out are dangerous.

Fuck off, andy. You're just being a dick now.

[Brenda]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Brenda Brenda:

That would be a nice idea, if it were not that then no one would become a good citizen after they get out. Who would want to work their butt off to pay off a jail-dept of $450K? It's easier to go back to the dark side so you can go on welfare and deal some drugs or rob some gas stations on the side.

One's prison debt could be used as a hell of an incentive to stay straight too. Tell the ex-con if he makes his payments for five years and stays out of trouble, the debt is forgiven. If he fucks up in the future, it's back to con college and the debt is reinstated.

I can see that

$1:

Brenda Brenda:

I rather see us put some effort in schooling them in prison so they can become good citizens after they get out and change their lives around, and have them make clothing pins or cook for their peers 40 hours a week. Cleaning up roads for the minimum security prisons, growing their own veggies in any prison, even have cows and pigs to provide milk and meat...

I like the idea of giving inmates opportunities to make money. That helps pay for the system and creates a lot of other positive benefits, such as work ethic, self-esteem and skills that can be carried beyond their prison days.

Absolutely. Not too much, but enough to buy more food than the basics, soap,schoolbooks, that kind of stuff. I also think that when you grow your own food, it gives some sense of accomplishment (as does working), which would only help them when they get out.

And when they never get out, at least they are doing something useful.

[Yogi]

Brenda Brenda:

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

I'm sure they would prefer to work for their keep. But then when it turns out that your plan isn't economically feasible, you'll still have to shoot them anyway.

Or put them on a payment plan when they get out.

That would be a nice idea, if it were not that then no one would become a good citizen after they get out. Who would want to work their butt off to pay off a jail-dept of $450K? It's easier to go back to the dark side so you can go on welfare and deal some drugs or rob some gas stations on the side.

I rather see us put some effort in schooling them in prison so they can become good citizens after they get out and change their lives around, and have them make clothing pins or cook for their peers 40 hours a week. Cleaning up roads for the minimum security prisons, growing their own veggies in any prison, even have cows and pigs to provide milk and meat...[/quote]


Already being done.Has been this way for 'ever'.

[andyt]

That's why you want to keep people out of prison on the first place. Other comparable countries to US and even Canada have much smaller prison populations, yet seem to have less crime than the US or Canada do as well.

[Brenda]

Yogi Yogi:

Brenda Brenda:

That would be a nice idea, if it were not that then no one would become a good citizen after they get out. Who would want to work their butt off to pay off a jail-dept of $450K? It's easier to go back to the dark side so you can go on welfare and deal some drugs or rob some gas stations on the side.

I rather see us put some effort in schooling them in prison so they can become good citizens after they get out and change their lives around, and have them make clothing pins or cook for their peers 40 hours a week. Cleaning up roads for the minimum security prisons, growing their own veggies in any prison, even have cows and pigs to provide milk and meat...

Already being done.Has been this way for 'ever'.

I know. I see nothing wrong with it.

[fifeboy]

Brenda Brenda:

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

I'm sure they would prefer to work for their keep. But then when it turns out that your plan isn't economically feasible, you'll still have to shoot them anyway.

Or put them on a payment plan when they get out.

That would be a nice idea, if it were not that then no one would become a good citizen after they get out. Who would want to work their butt off to pay off a jail-dept of $450K? It's easier to go back to the dark side so you can go on welfare and deal some drugs or rob some gas stations on the side.

I rather see us put some effort in schooling them in prison so they can become good citizens after they get out and change their lives around, and have them make clothing pins or cook for their peers 40 hours a week. Cleaning up roads for the minimum security prisons, growing their own veggies in any prison, even have cows and pigs to provide milk and meat...

However, I think Harper is putting the kybosh to already existing prison farms. I guess he prefers punishment to rehab.