[BartSimpson]

By the way, that's an intense pic of AH there!

[Benn]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Ideology and cost aside, we already have prisons in our system that are run somewhat like this Norwegian one. They're called minimum security prisons, which, if I'm correct require an inmate to earn his way into them.

For the most part, but they are not near as cushy as the one in the article. More cons go directly to it when overcrowding in the main jail is an issue. Moved their based on risk assessment rather than any earned time.

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Once there, their living conditions are considerably better than anywhere else in the prison system. They're taught relevant skills, take courses to make themselves more marketable to employers upon release, take courses to lessen their chance of reoffending and get to earn time with their familes.

More or less. The big problem is the fact for many their environment (friends family etc) is their risk factor when it come to those activities that put them at risk to re-offend. It takes a lot of will to get out and just separate yourself from those people and go it alone. There are some programs that help with this but not a lot unfortunately.

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Since I seriously doubt we will be going to the Norwegian model anytime soon, I'm inclinded to agree with Eyebrock that life in prison should be productive not vindictive with the public's safety being the paramount factor. So now the question becomes how do you do that and still keep enough integrity in the prison system to make it a deterrent?

Correct, just making them mad and leaving them to stew over those who "wronged" them for years does not help, actually studies have shown it leads to more recidivism. Your question is not so easy to answer obviously. Don't know it either for sure but I know it does not lay in just prison or the cops or any deterant they are (not much to career criminals) to people but I'll toss out that it goes further into what kinds of supports and opportunities are also in the public. What is around to divert them from this life and offer alternatives and after (if) if they spend time in jail what is there to help them make the changes THEY have decided to make while in jail and keep on track when they get out.

[andyt]

Benn Benn:

Correct, just making them mad and leaving them to stew over those who "wronged" them for years does not help, actually studies have shown it leads to more recidivism. Your question is not so easy to answer obviously. Don't know it either for sure but I know it does not lay in just prison or the cops or any deterant they are (not much to career criminals) to people but I'll toss out that it goes further into what kinds of supports and opportunities are also in the public. What is around to divert them from this life and offer alternatives and after (if) if they spend time in jail what is there to help them make the changes THEY have decided to make while in jail and keep on track when they get out.

Absolutely. And to ride my horse again, if we had those supports in place before the guy ever committed a crime (ie poverty alleviation) we'd save a bunch of money and a lot of aggro. But helping them keep to the straight and narrow when they get out would be money well spend too, and again save money in the long run. Of course with high unemployment, if we did that, we'd get people committing crimes just to get into prison so they can get help when they get out.

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

By the way, that's an intense pic of AH there!

I think he looks like he needs a hug there.

[Benn]

andyt andyt:

Benn Benn:

Correct, just making them mad and leaving them to stew over those who "wronged" them for years does not help, actually studies have shown it leads to more recidivism. Your question is not so easy to answer obviously. Don't know it either for sure but I know it does not lay in just prison or the cops or any deterant they are (not much to career criminals) to people but I'll toss out that it goes further into what kinds of supports and opportunities are also in the public. What is around to divert them from this life and offer alternatives and after (if) if they spend time in jail what is there to help them make the changes THEY have decided to make while in jail and keep on track when they get out.

Absolutely. And to ride my horse again, if we had those supports in place before the guy ever committed a crime (ie poverty alleviation) we'd save a bunch of money and a lot of aggro. But helping them keep to the straight and narrow when they get out would be money well spend too, and again save money in the long run. Of course with high unemployment, if we did that, we'd get people committing crimes just to get into prison so they can get help when they get out.

lol, bonus points for working "poverty alleviation" in.

[CommanderSock]

It makes sense, but in North America we're too obsessed with punishment and control and less concerned with rehab, our new kings will only reinforce this approach.

FFS we can't even get a safe injection site set up without the Feds pissing in their pants...