[sandorski]

RUEZ RUEZ:

sandorski sandorski:

RUEZ RUEZ:

How so? The taliban doesn't allow a woman to get an education, never mind an abortion.

Religious Fundamentalists.

I didn't realize this was a religious issue. It doesn't state anything about religion in the article. I guess it's impossible for anyone but religious people to be against abortion.

Really? Hmm, interesting. You might wanna get out more.

[Khar]

While the general debate does typically hold a relation to someone's value system (often in the form of religion), that is not the only debate going on about abortion.

Recently, a member here (I think it was Unsound) mentioned that he was concerned about abortion on biological grounds, if I remember correctly. There is an ongoing debate as to the extent of neonatal perception, when they feel pain (generally settled at beginning around 24 weeks), and if ending the existence of a fetus prior to birth at any stage is the same as killing a person, since the fetus will become a fully fledged person and ipso facto is a person (in their opinion).

Contrasted with sperm, where it's only "could be a child" and is more likely to be "funny smelling stain on kleenix" or "casualty of spermicide."

Hell, if you want, you can take a gander on Google for the philosophical debates on what constitutes a person, arguments from uncertainty, bodily rights, natural capacities and deprivation, all of which play a role as well alongside religion.

While religion is certainly a driving factor on the topic of abortion, it is far from being the only one for those who question whether or not abortion is a good thing. Personally, I think that abortions should be allowed, since it allows women to do the procedure in a sterile, safe and supportive environment where it can be handled by professionals. I don't really have an inclination to get into the debate beyond that -- it gets far too metaphysical for me, which is why I'm not expanding on a lot of the stuff I just tossed out above.

[Brenda]

herbie herbie:

Because it's pretty obvious.
Subject you to a mandatory chat to talk you out of it, make you wait another three days?
Like you were just walking by and

Oooh! What a cute little shop, wonder what it is?
Welcome to Planned Parenthood, you MUST have an abortion NOW. Follow the swinging watch...
Ooooooh.... I nneeeeddd an abortion.... noowwww.....

C'mon Brenda if you're going to an abortion clinic, you've already thought about it. Most likely for a lot longer than three days. They can't ban it outright, so they intend to put as many obstacles in the way as they can.
How is this Taliban? Are you gonna claim it's completley different as it's only a group of 90% men deciding for you instead of 100% men?

Do you see The Netherlands as a very right wing, religious country?

Sure, you have thought about it. But that doesn't mean your thoughts went the right way. Don't forget you are hormonal AND in panic mode. What this does is give you a right state of mind to make your decision. If you want to go through with it, they are there with counselling too. If you don't, that's ok too. They are not talking you out of abortion. When would anybody understand that??

[DerbyX]

Brenda Brenda:

Do you see The Netherlands as a very right wing, religious country?

Sure, you have thought about it. But that doesn't mean your thoughts went the right way. Don't forget you are hormonal AND in panic mode. What this does is give you a right state of mind to make your decision. If you want to go through with it, they are there with counselling too. If you don't, that's ok too. They are not talking you out of abortion. When would anybody understand that??

Sorry Brenda but I agree with Herbie on this. The people enacting these laws are doing it precising for the reason of placing obstacles in the path to prevent. They aren't concerned with trying to get women to think. Their entire reason is to prevent. As Herbie said those who have decided to go to a clinic have thought about it. They have made that choice.

First its 3 days. Then it'll be a week because 3 days isn't enough. Its also a logical fallacy that 3 days will put you in the right state of mind. What is your basis for making that claim? Its just as likely that the wait will aggravate the situation and cause greater stress and/or panic. It might also push the abortion over the time limit (one of the very reasons why they want this wait period).

It can and will unduly punish women who had to take time off work by forcing them to take another day off or wait even longer. It'll force women with limited transportation means to make additional arrangements and in the case of those women who live a long distance away from these facilities might mean greater hardship.

As for the being hormonal? C'mon. Does that mean women should be allowed to make their own decisions during their hormonal times of the month?

What about day after pills? This is the type of legislation that would also force them to "think about it" for 3 days thus rendering them useless.

If we really wanna nip this in the bud why not have a 3 day waiting period for sex? Each time. Make sure all parties concerned realize the consequences of their choice!

[Brenda]

$1:

What about day after pills? This is the type of legislation that would also force them to "think about it" for 3 days thus rendering them useless.

BS. Morning after pills are prescribed by the family doctor and are not a subject to a 5 day wait as it is not as big as a procedure as abortion is.

[DerbyX]

Brenda Brenda:

$1:

What about day after pills? This is the type of legislation that would also force them to "think about it" for 3 days thus rendering them useless.

BS. Morning after pills are prescribed by the family doctor and are not a subject to a 5 day wait as it is not as big as a procedure as abortion is.

It will be. Anti-choice activists consider it an abortion like any other and will say the exact same thing. A women should have to wait before she decides and they'll legislate that day after pills cannot be prescribed to non-pregnant women to do it.

They will (and have before) that the pill is not warranted unless a pregnancy has actually occurred (which is technically true) and that if a pregnancy has occurred then the wait period thus goes into affect.

[Brenda]

I love the North American paranoia

[DerbyX]

Brenda Brenda:

:lol:
I love the North American paranoia

Just because you think everybody is out to get you doesn't mean you are wrong.....

$1:

Before getting an abortion, a woman also will have to consult with a pregnancy help center to get information about services available to help her give birth and keep a child. The state will publish a list of pregnancy help centers, all of which seek to persuade women to give birth.

This is the other thing. This isn't an honest attempt to get women proper counseling its a veiled attempt to force women to endure sermons designed to scare them into having the pregnancy (and just watching a live birth should be enough to convince any sane women NOT to give birth. ) with "you'll go to hell" and "you'll be a murderer".

In fact there are lots and lots of "pregnancy help centres" that are little more then virulent anti-choice propaganda. In addition, legit pregnancy help centres have to be constantly vigilant for people going to work for them with the express reason of preventing abortions at any cost.

In the war between anti-choice and pro-choice one side has consistently shown itself to be hysterically unethical in its behaviour.

On the flip side should every pregnant women receive counseling to see if she wants to keep it or give it up for adoption? Should we force all pregnant women to hear who wonderful adoption is and they should consider it before selfishly keeping the child for themselves?

[Brenda]

$1:

On the flip side should every pregnant women receive counseling to see if she wants to keep it or give it up for adoption? Should we force all pregnant women to hear who wonderful adoption is and they should consider it before selfishly keeping the child for themselves?

Normally, pregnancy is a choice. Having a child is a well-considered choice. Women who didn't make that choice but are stuck with having to make one, are the ones that need the help. So yes, it is a good idea to educate them of the choices they have. Abortion, adoption, keeping it. And the how, where, what, why of every choice...

[RUEZ]

sandorski sandorski:

Really? Hmm, interesting. You might wanna get out more.

I get out every day, it's called a job. Now what did your little insult do to prove this is a religious issue?