[Brenda]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Well, we started off 30,000 years or so ago. We dabbled in a few things prior to the recent Christianity thing Brenda....it's only been 1500 years of a Christian UK.

Incidently that's 700 years before Islam was even thought of and 1200 years before Sikhism.

Ok, in modern history then

The issue tho is, that in modern days, the UK is considered to be a white Christian (modern, western) country, and everybody who doesn't subside (is that the right word?) to that, is not integrating...

As the rest of Western Europe is considered to be, btw.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Brenda Brenda:

... Yet, you never hear people screaming they should be sent back to their countries.

That's because of the commonality of last names. If Tommy Thompson from Wrexham, Wales commits a heinous crime while a citizen in Canada, his ass SHOULD be deported, period!

[sandorski]

The First Generation of Immigrants rarely integrate. Even when they try they fail to become fully integrated. It takes 2-3 Generations before one new Ethnic group is virtually indistinguishable from the established Society.

If you're going to judge the whole process on the first Generation of new Immigrants, you're going to fail.

[Brenda]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Brenda Brenda:

... Yet, you never hear people screaming they should be sent back to their countries.

That's because of the commonality of last names. If Tommy Thompson from Wrexham, Wales commits a heinous crime while a citizen in Canada, his ass SHOULD be deported, period!

Can't deport citizens. Ever.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Brenda Brenda:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Brenda Brenda:

... Yet, you never hear people screaming they should be sent back to their countries.

That's because of the commonality of last names. If Tommy Thompson from Wrexham, Wales commits a heinous crime while a citizen in Canada, his ass SHOULD be deported, period!

Can't deport citizens. Ever.

Ok, swap "citizen" for PR then. Or someone living here without citizenship. No shortage of those in this country.

[Brenda]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Brenda Brenda:

Can't deport citizens. Ever.

Ok, swap "citizen" for PR then. Or someone living here without citizenship. No shortage of those in this country.

They should be, I agree. Regardless of skin colour, religious beliefs, gender or sexual preference. (did I forget anything? )

[andyt]

sandorski sandorski:

The First Generation of Immigrants rarely integrate. Even when they try they fail to become fully integrated. It takes 2-3 Generations before one new Ethnic group is virtually indistinguishable from the established Society.

If you're going to judge the whole process on the first Generation of new Immigrants, you're going to fail.

In Britain you have multi-generations of Muslims, mostly Pakistanis who have not integrated in the least. And what does it mean to fail to integrate? Nobody's saying they have to eat bangers and mash, watch footie instead of cricket, speak English without an accent or even dress like the lager louts do. What they do have to do is follow the laws and important social mores of their adoptive country. And there should be no tried and failed about it - either do it or go back home.

[Brenda]

sandorski sandorski:

The First Generation of Immigrants rarely integrate. Even when they try they fail to become fully integrated. It takes 2-3 Generations before one new Ethnic group is virtually indistinguishable from the established Society.

If you're going to judge the whole process on the first Generation of new Immigrants, you're going to fail.

Integrating and being Canadian is not the same thing. I agree with you that it takes 2-3 generations before they are truly Canadians, but that is not what is asked here. Not from Canadian immigrants or UK immigrants.

Being a Canadian is more than just having Canadian citizenship.

[EyeBrock]

sandorski sandorski:

The First Generation of Immigrants rarely integrate. Even when they try they fail to become fully integrated. It takes 2-3 Generations before one new Ethnic group is virtually indistinguishable from the established Society.

If you're going to judge the whole process on the first Generation of new Immigrants, you're going to fail.

Yea, well 2nd and 3rd gen Canadians who are Muslim are still only marrying Muslims.

You fail on this.

[Brenda]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

sandorski sandorski:

The First Generation of Immigrants rarely integrate. Even when they try they fail to become fully integrated. It takes 2-3 Generations before one new Ethnic group is virtually indistinguishable from the established Society.

If you're going to judge the whole process on the first Generation of new Immigrants, you're going to fail.

Yea, well 2nd and 3rd gen Canadians who are Muslim are still only marrying Muslims.

You fail on this.

There are still Catholics who only marry Catholics and blacks who only marry blacks, Latino's who only marry Latino's and white Christians who only marry white Christians, and even Atheists who only marry Atheists...

[sandorski]

andyt andyt:

sandorski sandorski:

The First Generation of Immigrants rarely integrate. Even when they try they fail to become fully integrated. It takes 2-3 Generations before one new Ethnic group is virtually indistinguishable from the established Society.

If you're going to judge the whole process on the first Generation of new Immigrants, you're going to fail.

In Britain you have multi-generations of Muslims, mostly Pakistanis who have not integrated in the least. And what does it mean to fail to integrate? Nobody's saying they have to eat bangers and mash, watch footie instead of cricket, speak English without an accent or even dress like the lager louts do. What they do have to do is follow the laws and important social mores of their adoptive country. And there should be no tried and failed about it - either do it or go back home.

Hell, a good portion of true blooded Canadians/Brits don't even meet that criteria. You're so focused on the differences that you fail to see the Integration.

[SprCForr]

Brenda Brenda:

Of course it is...

I disagree and I think that's where the error is made. People try to make it one because it deals with immigrants. That's the error, deportation of law breaking immigrants isn't and shouldn't be tied to race. The law doesn't make racial exceptions and calling for drawing a hard line against all isn't racial either.

If groups of Scandinavians started causing touble, demanding tribute to Odin and calling for the death of those who don't bend a knee, you'd see calls for them to be deported too.

We know it's stupid to pass judgement on the whole based on the actions of a few. Conversely, it's not stupid to look at the whole when it's not just a few.

$1:

The story is an EU one...

I know, but like everything else around here it moved on...

Edit: Oh crap, I'm not dog piling!

[EyeBrock]

Brenda Brenda:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

sandorski sandorski:

The First Generation of Immigrants rarely integrate. Even when they try they fail to become fully integrated. It takes 2-3 Generations before one new Ethnic group is virtually indistinguishable from the established Society.

If you're going to judge the whole process on the first Generation of new Immigrants, you're going to fail.

Yea, well 2nd and 3rd gen Canadians who are Muslim are still only marrying Muslims.

You fail on this.

There are still Catholics who only marry Catholics and blacks who only marry blacks, Latino's who only marry Latino's and white Christians who only marry white Christians, and even Atheists who only marry Atheists...

True, but I would say a majority of white folks in Canada and the UK are not concerned about a potential spouses religion (except in Eire & Ulster), whereas I would think 90% of Muslims will only marry other Muslims.

[Brenda]

SprCForr SprCForr:

Brenda Brenda:

Of course it is...

I disagree and I think that's where the error is made. People try to make it one because it deals with immigrants. That's the error, deportation of law breaking immigrants isn't and shouldn't be tied to race. The law doesn't make racial exceptions and calling for drawing a hard line against all isn't racial either.

If groups of Scandinavians started causing touble, demanding tribute to Odin and calling for the death of those who don't bend a knee, you'd see calls for them to be deported too.

We know it's stupid to pass judgement on the whole based on the actions of a few. Conversely, it's not stupid to look at the whole when it's not just a few.

$1:

The story is an EU one...

I know, but like everything else around here it moved on...

Edit: Oh crap, I'm not dog piling!

I agree with you, because I think that it doesn't matter where you come from, emigrating to another country is just not that easy.
BUT, people see only the last name, and assume "hey, immigrant, get the hell back to your country when you mess up". No matter how long they have been here (or in the UK)
I don't care where you are from, if you are not a citizen, and you commit a crime, get out. Of any country. UK, Netherlands, Canada, I do NOT care.
BUT, since this is not the UK (or the EU) the problems are a little different.

[andyt]

sandorski sandorski:

andyt andyt:

In Britain you have multi-generations of Muslims, mostly Pakistanis who have not integrated in the least. And what does it mean to fail to integrate? Nobody's saying they have to eat bangers and mash, watch footie instead of cricket, speak English without an accent or even dress like the lager louts do. What they do have to do is follow the laws and important social mores of their adoptive country. And there should be no tried and failed about it - either do it or go back home.

Hell, a good portion of true blooded Canadians/Brits don't even meet that criteria. You're so focused on the differences that you fail to see the Integration.

And we wack em for it. No excuses that "their culture made them do it." Do the same for the immigrants, and if they're not citizens, deport their asses 'cause they couldn't keep their noses clean.